adan Posted November 12, 2013 Share #121 Posted November 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Frankly, the Nikon Df is just the camera I was looking for (almost) - in 1985. If this had been Nikon's offering (in film format) in place of the N2000/F-301, 8008 or N90 - as a smaller backup to the F4 - I would have been all over it, and likely never wandered into the world of Contax and Leica. I'd have seamlessly transitioned from an "Ff" to a "Df" as it came available. (I actually used an N2000 for several years, but always dreamed of a heftier metal "pro" version in place of the cheesy plastic body.) Today - it is 25 years late, and 2500 dollars short. The latter due to the missing split-image manual-focus screen (or at least the option), and the fact that I know how much better Canon's long tele lenses are (the only thing for which I use an SLR today - the M9 handles everything from 135mm on down). I'd like to think that Nikon has seen the light on the value of analog controls - at least for a noticeable subset of photographers. Unfortunately, I think all they've seen are the profits from "analog" sell-out hits from Leica and Fujifilm, and are just angling for a piece of the pie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Hi adan, Take a look here Nikon, steps in with an alternative....{merged}. . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted November 13, 2013 Share #122 Posted November 13, 2013 FWIW I compared a Nex 6 raw image (This camera was at hand on my desk.) shot properly exposed at ISO 3200 with one made 5 stops darker by using 100 ISO. The underexposed one was almost black on screen and I had to struggle to adjust it and got nowhere close to as nice as the ISO 3200 image even after jumping through hoops. I couldn't do very well in C1 either. DXO and C-1 do not even have an exposure slider that can cover 5 stops. DXO's raw processing and noise suppression does a great job with high ISO files while retaining detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted November 13, 2013 Share #123 Posted November 13, 2013 Much of the negative online chatter (IAE, or Internet Amplification Effect at play here perhaps?) seems to revolve around the Df's price v specification equation, in that many commentators can't reconcile the premium pricing with what they perceive as a largely prosumer feature set from the D610, despite the presence of the D4's sensor. I certainly agree that the Df deserved and should have the higher spec 51-point Af + 91k pixel AE + 1/8000 shutter etc from the D800/D4, but premium pricing for different design wrapped around familiar internals is hardly unheard of..... As for optional focusing screens, ideally yes, although I don't think manual focusing on the D800/D4 is particularly difficult. GPS/WiFi? I can see the attraction but there are adaptors and even Nikon's top bodies don't have those features built-in, so it's hardly surprising that a niche model doesn't. And video, well for quick clips that's what iPhone's are for, anything properly serious probably needs a lot of extra kit strapped to a DSLR or a dedicated motion camera anyway. The design? Deliberately retro yes, but Nikon have been quite open about that. Looks are purely a matter of personal preference of course, whilst ease of handling with those analogue controls will depend upon individual testing, just as it does with any other camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbbeyFoto Posted November 13, 2013 Share #124 Posted November 13, 2013 Nikon has certainly stirred up a storm with the Df. I am a baby boomer amateur and at the wrong end of Thom's sharp critical outcry. As with all the retro cameras there is an "emotional" reaction - and I am not sure that is confined to us old guys, see for example Olympus ads for their silver cameras. I am not immune to the emotional pull; it is a good part of the reason why I continue to work with Leica cameras. Yet at the end of the day, the camera has to facilitate the taking of photographs. Will the Df do that? As with many others one critical factor for me is the ability to focus manually. Unlike others I never did take to split screen focusing. I prefer a clean screen that allows me to focus on any part of the image. In my own experience that worked best with the ill fated Leica SL2. I do fear the Df will not live up to expectations on that front. Guess I differ from others on one other front; I prefer the D3 to the D700. Furthermore, the FM series cameras needed the MD-12 to feel comfortable in my hands. On this count I will need to handle a Df to see it works for me, but I am not overly optimistic. So while my reaction is not purely negative, I remain unconvinced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 13, 2013 Share #125 Posted November 13, 2013 I always leave my M8 at 160 ISO and adjust underexposure afterwards in PP - this works pretty well most of the time. Since changing ISO is simply 'boosting gain' it should be quite possible to have pure manual controls allowing desired aperture and shutter to be set, with a simple warning when exposure deviation exceeds specified limits:eek:. Or am I being too obtuse? Essentially this is how I often use the M8 and whatever the theoretical consequences (yes I know the ETTR lobby will be horrified and its an old camera, etc,) this way of working can be surprisingly satisfying and can yield effective images. Just a note- ETTR works best at base ISO and diminishes as you move away from it. Essentially ETTR forces a lower ISO than natively available on the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 5, 2013 Share #126 Posted December 5, 2013 Well, I got to handle one yesterday. After 10s I put it down. Its not a camera I have any desire to use or own. I didn't like the feel and its is unbelievably cluttered and overly complex. The lens looks like a MF but feels like an AF. Hopefully someone will like it but its about as far from my taste as a camera could be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted December 5, 2013 Share #127 Posted December 5, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I handled one in the store the other day and actually really liked it. Not enough to warrant losing a bundle on my barely used D600in order to purchase one, but enough that in the future if I ran across a black one as a refurb/used I would highly consider it. Yes, still too much stuff tacked onto its exterior, but it felt much more like a 'real camera' to me than the D600. I liked it miles better than the A7 that everybody's so seemingly enthralled with (I just can't stand EVF's, period). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted December 5, 2013 Share #128 Posted December 5, 2013 I also got to handle one yesterday. Whilst I was in the shop one Df was handed over to a customer there to collect it and I counted eight others in boxes with names from the waiting list attached. I liked it. Noticeably smaller and much lighter than the D700/D800 and still a little smaller and lighter than the D600/610, it felt 'right sized'. Used in 'traditional' mode via the dials (yes, it looks busy on top) it won't be a modern speedster - since there are locks that need to be released - but the auto functions are still available if and when needed. One other observation, with eyes well into age related presbyopia territory there might be an issue with reading the markings on the those dials...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted December 6, 2013 Share #129 Posted December 6, 2013 The focus screen is not changeable and does not have a split screen. I know and knew it then, but it still must have one to be pure. One salesman at Calumet said it reminds him of the F3 and it is a solid camera. But still no focus screen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 6, 2013 Share #130 Posted December 6, 2013 ...Noticeably smaller and much lighter than the D700/D800 and still a little smaller and lighter than the D600/610, it felt 'right sized'... I guess that is mostly what it offers as I don't believe it offers any new features or better performance. (I am not a digital Nikon shooter so I don't really know.) But considering the small size of the A7 I wonder what is going on in the extra space of larger DSLRs... other than a bigger battery and the mirror box/prism. I used to use 1D bodies and while I liked the vertical grip found them awful heavy and bulky when carrying them all day. Having a small body with an optional grip is my preferred design approach now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted December 7, 2013 Share #131 Posted December 7, 2013 I wasn't sure were to put this thread so Mods please move if needed. A local shop was doing an official launch yesterday and I got to hold and handle the camera for the first time. One word... Disappointing. It felt like a cheap, over sized point and shoot. The chrome finish looks awful and it wont wear well. The knobs and switches aren't much better. The round dials on top felt like alloy. They would have been better in brass IMO. Honestly I was so looking forward to this camera. The black version may be better but if the splatter finish on other Nikons is anything to go by, then I'm afraid it wont be. OK, So it has the new D4 sensor, this may sound harsh but that's about the only good thing I can say about it. Think "BLOB" DSLR with not very well done retro covers. If you're thinking of buying this camera make sure you get to handle it before parting with any money. If you're like me and you want that "quality" feel then this isn't the camera for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted December 7, 2013 Share #132 Posted December 7, 2013 You make a valid point about actually handling a camera -- any camera -- instead of just reading about it. On paper, the Leica M may seem antediluvian compared with techno wonders and make no sense at all. Pick it up and it feels superb. Of course, you also have to use the camera, but having a play in the store is no bad thing. Tokyo stories, for example, have cameras tethered to shelves and anyone can wander in and check them out at leisure. Great fun! One I thought I definitely wouldn't like was a giant Nikon D4. And I know I wouldn't want to take it very far. But ergonomically, despite the heft, it felt very well balanced and the viewfinder was big and clear and focusing fast and accurate. Some EVIL cameras felt plasticky. Most Leica like was Fuji. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted December 7, 2013 Share #133 Posted December 7, 2013 It should be here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/307386-nikon-steps-alternative-merged.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkphoto Posted December 10, 2013 Share #134 Posted December 10, 2013 Regarding the Df … I bought one a week ago. I am on a business trip with it and have not had an opportunity to really put it to work, but I have played with it and made some test images with different lenses. My take on it so far … (1) Disappointed in the feel of the camera in terms of "robustness." It feels too light and too "plasticky" Wish it had more metal. (2) It fits well in my hand. Feels comfortable in terms of grip etc (3) No issues with the locks on the ISO knobs. They are easy to manipulate and I like the fact that I will not be surprised that they changed with I did not expect or intend them to. (4) Wish it had 1/2 stop changes on shutter speed dial instead of full stops. (5) The focus assist on manual focus lenses seems to work fine. (6) The programming of non-chipped lenses works great and allows display of f-stop in viewfinder (7) Wish the focus screen could be changed (8) Noise levels at high ISO seems remarkable compared to my M9 (9) Auto exposure seems very good (10) 5.5 fps is welcome at times (took some 4-5 shot bursts of Shamu at Sea World!) (11) My old Nikon AIS glass is really pretty good! LOL (12) 16.2MP is enough for my needs (13) With the old lenses, it is really quite a compact kit to carry (14) The Auto ISO feature works great Basically, I bought it because I saw it as having similar characteristics as the M8/M9 etc … full manual control - even manual focus for that matter. I tend to be a "sunny 16/ zone focus" shooter when traveling and this camera allows that same approach. Yet, with the 50mm lens it came with (50mm f1.8G AF-S) it allows for quick auto focus at f1.8 on the streets. Is it perfect? No. But I never did buy any DSLRs before as I did not see them fitting my style of shooting. This one does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted December 11, 2013 Share #135 Posted December 11, 2013 Many thanks for posting your initial thoughts. Regarding point no.1 above, that concurs with my initial impression when I went in to see the Df last week. I understand that part of Nikon's design brief for this camera though, was for it to be their smallest and lightest full-frame DSLR and they've achieved that (just) in comparison to the D600/610. However, like you, I would have preferred just a little more heft to the new smaller body. Enjoy your new camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted December 11, 2013 Share #136 Posted December 11, 2013 I keep changing my mind on this one. It is expensive for what it is. Nice that it takes original Nikkor lenses, but mine are all Ais. The old ones have significant CA and distortion. Leica lenses have such small amounts, I ignore it. I have to keep going into a menu to tell the camera what lens is on it. OTH, the new ones are significantly better, but larger, less well made. Sure it has the D4 sensor for low light, but some internet tests indicate a D800 brought down to the same resolution is the same. I really dislike the hot shoe poking up like a tree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted December 11, 2013 Share #137 Posted December 11, 2013 I've been prevaricating too, but think I will probably end up taking the plunge. BTW, according to DxO (and Thom Hogan if you read him) the Df's sensor has slightly improved high ISO performance over the D4, after some fine tuning by Nikon. http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Nikon-Df-review-New-low-light-champion/Nikon-Df-Versus-Nikon-D4-Competitive-Edge http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/sensor-changes.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkphoto Posted December 12, 2013 Share #138 Posted December 12, 2013 ... I have to keep going into a menu to tell the camera what lens is on it ... I set up my AIS lenses in the menu and the defined the function (Fn) button as "non-CPU" so that to change the lens on the camera you simply have to hold the Fn button and rotate the sub-command dial on the rear of the camera to select the lens. The chosen lens information appears on the LCD (e.g ... 35 f1.4). It really is painless. I have also set up the Preview Button so that I can toggle ISO Auto. In Auto it will go from the ISO you have set on the dial on the top plate up to the defined maximum (right now 6400 for me) while holding the user-defined shutter speed (you would have to go into the menus to change these two parameters) . If turned off it will simply hold the ISO from the dial. I understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I have no problem with the top plate and the dials on it. The front of the camera does look busy, but I would not want to give up the functionality of the two buttons I just described. So far, I am liking this camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted December 13, 2013 Share #139 Posted December 13, 2013 Do the ais lenses peeform well? I have been disappointed with my 24/2.8 af on the d7000 I have programmed the stop down/dof preview button on d7000 for the non cpu selection, seemed vaguely logical! Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkphoto Posted December 13, 2013 Share #140 Posted December 13, 2013 Do the ais lenses peeform well? I have been disappointed with my 24/2.8 af on the d7000 The Df is my first DSLR so I have not used the AIS lenses prior to playing with them briefly on the new camera. I have tried a few test shots with the 24/2.8 and seem pleased. I also have tried the 20/4, 28/2.8, 35/1.4, 35/2, 50/1.4, 55/2.8, 85/2, and 105/2.5. I was somewhat disappointed with the 35/2. The others seemed fine. I think that the "non-CPU" programming to use the Fn button is very intuitive, I just have to remember to do it before the first image with the newly mounted lens instead of after 1-2 shots! LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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