mblaze Posted October 13, 2013 Share #1 Â Posted October 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm not sure I fully understand the sematics of auto-ISO in manual and auto exposure mode in the M240. As far as I can tell: Â - I think I understand "A" mode: if ISO 200 will yield a correct exposure with a shutter speed above the configured minimum, you get ISO 200. Otherwise, it uses the configured minimum shutter speed, increasing the sensor sensitivity to whatever value (up to the configured max ISO) is required for a correct exposure. This is pretty much the expected behavior. Â - In manual exposure mode, you seem to get a random ISO. It *seems* to be the last selected (non-auto) ISO value, but I'm not totally sure how this value is selected. Â If it in fact uses in fact the last non-auto ISO value in manual mode, that's usually the "right" behavior as far as I'm concerned, although I'd prefer a more explicit way of setting (and seeing) the value. Of course, it would also be reasonable for auto ISO to have the camera to select an ISO value that yields a correct exposure with the manually selected exposure, but that doesn't seem to be what it does, at least on my camera. That would have the disadvantage of making it difficult (two steps, with menu) to switch from fully auto to fully manual, and I'd not like this behavior personally. Â Actually, the "correct" behavior would probably be for the camera to have two independent ISO settings, one used for manual exposure mode, and another for auto, where each could be set (with auto or an explicit value) separately. Â Future firmware, I hope. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 Hi mblaze, Take a look here Behavior of m240 auto-ISO?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted October 13, 2013 Share #2 Â Posted October 13, 2013 Auto iso only works in A mode so far. See Leica M240 Auto ISO and other threads in the forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafasoleiman Posted October 13, 2013 Share #3 Â Posted October 13, 2013 I'm pretty certain that it remembers the last ISO value set manually. Â I agree that it makes sense when you switch to manual speed that the ISO also switches to manual... The only problem I have is that it is not obvious, you have to remember what was the last setting you used, and the setting in the menu still says automatically which is misleading. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougg Posted October 14, 2013 Share #4  Posted October 14, 2013 I'm pretty certain that it remembers the last ISO value set manually. I agree that it makes sense when you switch to manual speed that the ISO also switches to manual... The only problem I have is that it is not obvious, you have to remember what was the last setting you used, and the setting in the menu still says automatically which is misleading. This does make sense, and is my preferred way for it to work. In practice, I mostly use Auto exposure, and for odd light situations I will switch to Manual and use an offset exposure based on the auto-suggested shutter speed. I may leave it set this way until the light changes. I'm more comfortable doing this than using exposure compensation settings, so having the ISO remain static in Manual is just what I want. Auto is auto, Manual is manual... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario Arioldi Posted October 14, 2013 Share #5 Â Posted October 14, 2013 Manual shutter speed is just manual shutter speed, is not manual WB, manual ISO, manual Noise reduction... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted October 14, 2013 Share #6 Â Posted October 14, 2013 We have been through this discussion several times. Most prefer the way the M9 works (shutter dial controls shutter speed, ISO button controls ISO settings) and some would like the shutter dial to override the auto ISO setting. But I think everybody can agree that the current implementation (using some remembered ISO value) is flawed. Â Leica has committed to address this in some future firmware update by letting the user choose the desired behavior. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick De Marco Posted October 14, 2013 Share #7 Â Posted October 14, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) But unfortunately don't seem to have fixed it in the firmware update Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telfs Posted October 14, 2013 Share #8 Â Posted October 14, 2013 I'm not sure I fully understand the sematics of auto-ISO in manual and auto exposure mode in the M240. As far as I can tell:Â - I think I understand "A" mode: if ISO 200 will yield a correct exposure with a shutter speed above the configured minimum, you get ISO 200. Otherwise, it uses the configured minimum shutter speed, increasing the sensor sensitivity to whatever value (up to the configured max ISO) is required for a correct exposure. This is pretty much the expected behavior. Â - In manual exposure mode, you seem to get a random ISO. It *seems* to be the last selected (non-auto) ISO value, but I'm not totally sure how this value is selected. Â If it in fact uses in fact the last non-auto ISO value in manual mode, that's usually the "right" behavior as far as I'm concerned, although I'd prefer a more explicit way of setting (and seeing) the value. Of course, it would also be reasonable for auto ISO to have the camera to select an ISO value that yields a correct exposure with the manually selected exposure, but that doesn't seem to be what it does, at least on my camera. That would have the disadvantage of making it difficult (two steps, with menu) to switch from fully auto to fully manual, and I'd not like this behavior personally. Â Actually, the "correct" behavior would probably be for the camera to have two independent ISO settings, one used for manual exposure mode, and another for auto, where each could be set (with auto or an explicit value) separately. Â Future firmware, I hope. Â I don't think it is reasonable for the camera to change ISO settings in Manual mode to get a "correct" exposure - usually one is in Manual mode because the auto exposure isn't "correct" or one wants a particular exposure. To have the camera try to get back to it's own version would be frustrating (at least for me!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted October 14, 2013 Share #9 Â Posted October 14, 2013 I believe some of the angst folks seem to have on this topic is that with the M, Leica removed a capability some found extremely useful in the M8, and M9. Â With these bodies one has full manual control by setting ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, using the dedicated control for each. But these bodies also permit the photographer to fix shutter speed (say at a value high enough to freeze subject or camera movement), select the aperture for desired DOF, and let the body calculate an ISO that produced proper exposure. This mode of operation is particularly useful in event shooting under changing lighting conditions where fully manual operation results in a lot of missed opportunities. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wok64 Posted October 16, 2013 Share #10  Posted October 16, 2013 I believe some of the angst folks seem to have on this topic is that with the M, Leica removed a capability some found extremely useful in the M8, and M9. With these bodies one has full manual control by setting ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, using the dedicated control for each. But these bodies also permit the photographer to fix shutter speed (say at a value high enough to freeze subject or camera movement), select the aperture for desired DOF, and let the body calculate an ISO that produced proper exposure. This mode of operation is particularly useful in event shooting under changing lighting conditions where fully manual operation results in a lot of missed opportunities.  You nailed it. I was shocked to find out it no longer works this way. Another important use case of this mode is that for elderly folks the automated 1/focal length may still lead to blurry results now and then and you may just wish to set something like 1/(2 x focal length) when switching lenses and still rely on auto iso to take care about the rest.  Looking at some of my images it seems I´m approaching that age ...  Given that Leica has quite long periods between firmware upgrades it seems we still may miss this feature for a while. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozoyo Posted October 16, 2013 Share #11 Â Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) It is all very personal but the way I work, ISO is the first thing I set up. It is like choosing a film, then starting shooting with it. I absolutely hate having ISOs automatically chosen for me, I can't see how you can properly control your light not knowing what sensibilty you're shooting at. Then again, I am currently using a Nikon D800E, while waiting for my M240, where ISO settings are very easily accessible. Leica M might be a completely different shooting experience and I have to say I am a bit afraid of being disorientated or even worse, disappointed (if I ever get my M)... Edited October 16, 2013 by Ozoyo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted October 16, 2013 Share #12 Â Posted October 16, 2013 It is all very personal but the way I work, ISO is the first thing I set up. It is like choosing a film, then starting shooting with it. I absolutely hate having ISOs automatically chosen for me, I can't see how you can properly control your light not knowing what sensibilty you're shooting at. Â Why don't you just switch Auto-ISO off and leave this function to the users that want to work with it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Essemmlee Posted October 16, 2013 Share #13 Â Posted October 16, 2013 Like many long time photographers I have Auto ISO built in. It seems the most natural starting point for any photo outing. Â Equally, when using the M, it isn't even beyond my meagre intellect to press the ISO button and turn the thumb wheel to the ISO I've auto assigned in my head Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digi2ap Posted October 17, 2013 Share #14 Â Posted October 17, 2013 Having auto ISO is also a useful for videography and in some situations is the best way to balance exposure settings during a long interview. I wonder if ISO is at least manually changeable when recording video if auto ISO won't do the job for you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 17, 2013 Share #15 Â Posted October 17, 2013 The only thing Leica needs to - and will- do is to add another automatic setting to vary ISO with aperture and shutterspeed fixed. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozoyo Posted October 21, 2013 Share #16 Â Posted October 21, 2013 Why don't you just switch Auto-ISO off and leave this function to the users that want to work with it? What a great idea... My concern was about accessibility to manual ISO. Reading a number of posts on this forum, it looks like something people want to see improved in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted October 21, 2013 Share #17 Â Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Nope! Â M series camera: use it in M. The A is there for .. Â If you manually focus the lens. If you set the shutter speed manually. If you set the aperture manually. Â I am sorry - WTF is Auto iso? Â Â Â Edit: "Auto iso only works in A mode". Well, in re-reading the post, maybe that's why you and I have a different experience in the M series. Tip take the camera out of A and into M. Edited October 21, 2013 by Gilgamesh 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansmezger Posted October 21, 2013 Share #18  Posted October 21, 2013 I believe some of the angst folks seem to have on this topic is that with the M, Leica removed a capability some found extremely useful in the M8, and M9. With these bodies one has full manual control by setting ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, using the dedicated control for each. But these bodies also permit the photographer to fix shutter speed (say at a value high enough to freeze subject or camera movement), select the aperture for desired DOF, and let the body calculate an ISO that produced proper exposure. This mode of operation is particularly useful in event shooting under changing lighting conditions where fully manual operation results in a lot of missed opportunities.   Spot on! I really don't understand why it takes like forever for Leica to this... I have been using this feature on my Fuji and all I can say is that it made my life much more easier! Wish my 10k camera could do that...  Btw.. For the ones who are against this update...I'd highly advise you to pay a visit to psychiatrist;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveBK Posted October 21, 2013 Share #19 Â Posted October 21, 2013 I would prefer they revert to M8/M9 AUTO ISO behavior, as I used it much in street & event shooting. Â At the very least, if they are going to disable AUTO ISO on you when you set a manual shutter speed.. they could reflect that in the ISO menu!! When I hit the ISO button, and AUTO ISO has been disabled due to shutter selection, then the ISO menu better show me what ISO the camera has reverted to. It simply makes no sense otherwise. Â Tripped over this on my first outing with my new M. After restarting camera, and a bit of futzing I recalled the AUTO ISO complaints here.. and realized what it must mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0n0 Posted March 25, 2019 Share #20  Posted March 25, 2019 On 10/14/2013 at 12:06 PM, Luke_Miller said: I believe some of the angst folks seem to have on this topic is that with the M, Leica removed a capability some found extremely useful in the M8, and M9.  With these bodies one has full manual control by setting ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, using the dedicated control for each. But these bodies also permit the photographer to fix shutter speed (say at a value high enough to freeze subject or camera movement), select the aperture for desired DOF, and let the body calculate an ISO that produced proper exposure. This mode of operation is particularly useful in event shooting under changing lighting conditions where fully manual operation results in a lot of missed opportunities. This is spot on. I came from a M9/MM to the M240 last year and, having never turned on AUTO-ISO, was just stumped by its behaviour when I tried, and didn't find an answer here. Its now 2019. Just to round off this discussion and put it out there for anyone else who might have had the same experience, it looks like Leica provided a solution as via a firmware update since this discussion was last active, though I don't know which one. I'm on 2.05 ( issued in 11/29/2017) and there's now a menu option as suggested by JaapV. From the ISO button, under "Auto ISO in M mode" you can choose "Previous ISO" or "Auto." Perfect. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.