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The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

dmclalla

By dmclalla
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biglou

biglou

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Well at least Steve Huff actually shot with the A7R / 50 LUX combo prior to making his statement. This means more to me than conjecture.

 

And yes, shooting with an EVF on the M240 is a pain. But only because the EVF and supporting electronics/firmware in the M240 are so poorly implemented.

 

This is exactly the reason why i passed this time.

I have already a M9 and am not sure the 240 is such a big improvement for image quality and now i will be able to use my R lenses on the Sony, the macro and teles for sure, maybe most of the M lenses also.

So it is a no brainer, i will wait until Leica improves the electronics, evf etc...

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Rick

Rick

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I am purely referring to the M240 body. I have no problem putting money into quality glass. I agree, Leica lenses are forever.

 

With respect to the bodies, the incredibly irony is there isn't a single attribute of significance where the M240 is better than the A7R. The monetary difference is just the icing on the cake.

 

In the end, all digital bodies will depreciate, the M240 included. And I suspect that if Sony continue on this path, the M240 may depreciate more than most.

 

Realize, of course, I like to argue sometimes... but, having said that :D what you write is what they said when the RX1 came out and it turned out to be not as good as my M240 in image quality or ease of use for most situations. And, certainly the M-lens lineup kills the RX1.

 

I view the A7R about the same except the more updated sensor and electronics are going to be nice, but I bet I end up using the M240 for M-lenses and I bet there will be little real difference in image quality.

 

I'll have to wait and see if the A7R's focus peaking or magnifying a patch of the image is going to be so far superior to the good old RF in my M240 that I end up shooting the A7R with my M glass rather than just using the M240.

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douglasf13

douglasf13

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Realize, of course, I like to argue sometimes... but, having said that :D what you write is what they said when the RX1 came out and it turned out to be not as good as my M240 in image quality or ease of use for most situations. And, certainly the M-lens lineup kills the RX1.

 

I view the A7R about the same except the more updated sensor and electronics are going to be nice, but I bet I end up using the M240 for M-lenses and I bet there will be little real difference in image quality.

 

I'll have to wait and see if the A7R's focus peaking or magnifying a patch of the image is going to be so far superior to the good old RF in my M240 that I end up shooting the A7R with my M glass rather than just using the M240.

 

You'll have to quantify how your RX1's IQ isn't as good as your m240's IQ. There are no metrics out there to confirm such a thing. If you're just talking about color, then that's simply a raw converter and/or profile issue. I certainly don't use the canned Adobe profile with my RX1.

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Ozkar

Ozkar

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Realize, of course, I like to argue sometimes... but, having said that :D what you write is what they said when the RX1 came out and it turned out to be not as good as my M240 in image quality or ease of use for most situations. And, certainly the M-lens lineup kills the RX1.

 

I view the A7R about the same except the more updated sensor and electronics are going to be nice, but I bet I end up using the M240 for M-lenses and I bet there will be little real difference in image quality.

 

I'll have to wait and see if the A7R's focus peaking or magnifying a patch of the image is going to be so far superior to the good old RF in my M240 that I end up shooting the A7R with my M glass rather than just using the M240.

 

I always enjoy reading your perspective. As far as I'm concerned, we're just bouncing our thoughts off each other ;)

 

And you're right, the A7R may well be a fizzer. If so, I may still be able to buy an M240 before Christmas. Popflash have another M in stock, this time in chrome:

 

LEICA M SILVER CHROME DIGITAL CAMERA BODY #10771 USA NEW!

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IkarusJohn

IkarusJohn

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Rick has got me thinking (funny that).

 

Apart from the rangefinder, what is the difference between these cameras?

 

Sony has more experience in sensors

 

Sony is an electronics company, so should get that stuff right

 

Hmm, Leica makes the case ... and charges a LOT more

 

What have I missed? Oh, yes - price :-)

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Rick

Rick

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I always enjoy reading your perspective. As far as I'm concerned, we're just bouncing our thoughts off each other ;)

 

And you're right, the A7R may well be a fizzer. If so, I may still be able to buy an M240 before Christmas. Popflash have another M in stock, this time in chrome:

 

LEICA M SILVER CHROME DIGITAL CAMERA BODY #10771 USA NEW!

 

Hey, thanks for the kind words. I agree, and that is true for you and most of the posts I read above... I enjoy reading really smart people try to explain their perspective.

 

Also, don't miss the fact that I ordered the A7R 5 minutes after the 11:00 pm PST Sony live internet video. :D I want to see the A7R on my 280/4.0 APO! :)

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Ozkar

Ozkar

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Leica could buy all the A7r built, stuff the sensor and electronics in their M and still make a nice benefit.

Otherwise the M240 is really a fine camera and i am waiting for the improvements (EVF mostly)

 

They will need to get in line ... behind Hassleblad, who have just stuffed the whole camera behind a nicely polished burled walnut timber grip :D

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k-hawinkler

k-hawinkler

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Hey, thanks for the kind words. I agree, and that is true for you and most of the posts I read above... I enjoy reading really smart people try to explain their perspective.

 

Also, don't miss the fact that I ordered the A7R 5 minutes after the 11:00 pm PST Sony live internet video. :D I want to see the A7R on my 280/4.0 APO! :)

 

 

Hi Rick,

 

Thanks for kicking off an really interesting discussion.

I think the discussion has already brought up many important points.

Some of them we don't know the answer to at this point.

A vigorous discussion from very different points of view always help me straighten out my own thinking.

Again, thank you.

 

My A7R is scheduled for December 1, 2013 shipment..

But Sony is sometimes a little late as with the initial delivery of my NEX-7.

Anyway, when we have them let's compare notes how the A7Rs are doing on our superb R lenses.

 

I think I will put my silver M order on hold for awhile so that I maintain my position at the top of the queue. :)

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fotografr

fotografr

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I know there is a lot of interest in using Leica lenses on other cameras. Last year I wrote an article for my blog on my experiences with several Leica lenses on a Fuji X1-E. It turns out to have attracted more hits than anything else I've written--and photography is only a side interest. Always, though, there has been the knotty problem of the crop factor to contend with and this is something that will disappear with a full-frame body.

 

You are absolutely right. In less than two days after Sony unveiled the cameras, I have talked to four professional photographers who are seriously considering changing systems. Three of them have several Leica lenses and are already checking into different M to E mount adapters.

 

I've also heard quite a bit of speculation that Leica are working on their own version of full frame mirrorless with interchangeable lenses. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

Yes, the E-mount adapter is generally available and has been used with NEX models. I agree, it is a very interesting camera. I see Steve Huff has already tried it with 35 and 50mm Summiluxes and reports good results. We shall have to wait for further more intensive tests.

 

There are a few adapters available but they don't all allow infinity focusing. One very good one that does allow infinity focusing is made by Metabones.

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Rick

Rick

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Hi Rick,

 

Thanks for kicking off an really interesting discussion.

I think the discussion has already brought up many important points.

Some of them we don't know the answer to at this point.

A vigorous discussion from very different points of view always help me straighten out my own thinking.

Again, thank you.

 

My A7R is scheduled for December 1, 2013 shipment..

But Sony is sometimes a little late as with the initial delivery of my NEX-7.

Anyway, when we have them let's compare notes how the A7Rs are doing on our superb R lenses.

 

I think I will put my silver M order on hold for awhile so that I maintain my position at the top of the queue. :)

 

Yeah, that all started with post #229 when I had a few minutes at lunch to unload a couple thoughts to stir it up a little. It was so long I'm surprised anyone bothered to wade through it. And, I agree, it is kind nice around here like this (civil, I mean).

 

The sick part about this for me is that I'll probably keep the RX1 and the A7R and... the M240.

 

Hey, off topic, sort of, but wait 'till I post a picture if the A7R and my 280/2.8 APO stacked with a couple APO extenders.:p Or, imagine the modular Tele R system with the little A7R on it (I don't own that, maybe Lou is hiding that one in his collection?). Who'd have thunk this would be the look of future photography?

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AlanG

AlanG

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I thought this might interest some of you.

Field Test: Sony A7R l Brian Smith Pictures

 

Yes, and I saw it previously too. The one image he has of a woman's eye at 100% certainly is very detailed for being shot at 1/160 with a 55mm lens. I guess that puts an end to any thought that 36MP is not useful for quick handheld work due to camera shake. I presume he did not use a tripod for it.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

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No need to feel sorry. The points he had raised are still valid. Like him I think it was a bad idea to shoehorn a full-frame sensor into something that is basically an APS-C system – understandable from a marketing perspective as Sony evidently wants to streamline their portfolio into a single system with a single mount, but a harebrained decision from a technical viewpoint.

 

Sorry but I find it extremely unlikely that Sony engineers are clueless idiots like many "experts" in this forum are trying to depict them.

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CaptZoom

CaptZoom

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Sorry but I find it extremely unlikely that Sony engineers are clueless idiots like many "experts" in this forum are trying to depict them.

 

I don't think he claimed the Sony engineers are idiots; and he's not claiming that what Sony's done isn't going to work. Rather, I think he's commenting on a missed opportunity by Sony. They're designing a system from the ground up, and had the opportunity to design the mount so that there are fewer constraints on lens design. This generally translates to easier lens design, which in turn translates into lower costs. Consider the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 lens- by all accounts it's a superb lens and almost as good as any other 75mm. It costs nowhere close to what other fine 75mm lenses.

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almoore

almoore

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Sorry but I find it extremely unlikely that Sony engineers are clueless idiots like many "experts" in this forum are trying to depict them.

 

Yup, given how interesting and elegant this new offering from Sony appears to be, it does seem to verge on the comical that self-appointed optical experts are pouring scorn on Sony's wisdom without ever having tried the camera.

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dwbell

dwbell

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Pics with 12mm to 28mm M lenses will be the judge. I don't hold my breath but i may be wrong.

 

I thanked a post in one of the many other threads that pointed out that yes, or a small percentage of users that range is EVERYTHING, but for the other 90% 35 and up is where it counts.

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