CaptZoom Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1701 Posted October 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am referencing your post #1666. Compression is part of "in-camera processing" Do you shoot uncompressed? I saw a video short on Sony Rumors where the guy was going into using the Sony software to turn off all camera auto settings imbedded into the file upon capture. This made me wonder if the Sony file compression does more than just lossless compression, but might also add other unwanted effects in the image. It is really about reducing the effects of high ISO files at 12500. High ISO Sony Alpha A7 / A7 RAWs Look Awful - But are they? | Leica BOSS I shoot regular DNG, not the compressed DNG options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 28, 2013 Posted October 28, 2013 Hi CaptZoom, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
FrozenInTime Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1702 Posted October 28, 2013 One thing the A7r shows us is that there would be demand for a M shaped camera which does not have a rangefinder but instead has a built in EVF. I for one would still prefer to use the rangefinder body for 28 to 75mm lenses, and a second EVF equipped body for macro, wider and longer lenses. There is also the monochrom niche which I doubt sony will bother with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1703 Posted October 28, 2013 Good points both of you . . . But Canon and Nikon is not the same as Leica M, and Lightroom profiles are not the same as firmware profiles, added to which, Just as Canon and Nikon users are obvious targets for Sony, Hasselblad was an obvious target for Leica - in each case the market leader for that type of camera. For us it seems like being able to use M lenses is a big deal - I just don't see why Sony should see it that way - and the fact that M lenses aren't even mentioned in the FAQ rather seems to bear that out. Still - I've been wrong before - and here's hoping - if they do it, then Leica might see it as a good idea to make a customisable lens table for the M! First up, Leica is specifically mentioned in the interview with the Marketing Director from Sony I linked earlier. Second, if the A7R is not intended to be used with Canon or Nikon, and more particularly Leica lenses, I really don't see the point in having micro-lenses. We have to assume that the A7 will work adequately with all the Sony-Zeiss lenses, including a nice collection of wides. Maybe even superwides. I doubt very much that Sony will make wide angle lenses that do not work with both the A7 and the A7R - I certainly don't see them making lenses that only work with one camera and not the other. So, why make one camera with micro-lenses and a gapless sensor when presumably they won't be necessary for Sony wides which will presumably work on the A7, without micro lenses and gapless sensors ... It makes no sense to me, unless Sony is (as they say) trying to cope with the short register distance and shallow incidence angles of Leica and Zeiss ZM lenses. I am assuming here that none of the Canon or Nikon lenses will have these problems with their wides because the register distance is greater, and the incidence angle not so shallow with these lenses. The question in my mind is not whether or not the A7R is intended to be used with Leica & Zeiss ZM lenses (and clearly marketed as such), but whether or not they will work with them. That is a far trickier question. I'm not sure I agree with you (from what I have read) that it is not possible to match the corrections in the camera firmware by post processing - the raw file is, after all, a raw file. Sure, Leica makes corrections for distortion, colour shift and vignetting, but can't these be done with software on our computers? If the edges are much, that will be another problem altogether. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1704 Posted October 28, 2013 Sorry, I should add that with the growth in mirroless interchangeable lens cameras, we will surely see more lenses with short register distances, if capture at the edges can be mastered. Sony seems to see that this market segment has a stronger future than dSLR, APS-C or M4/3. So, what does that mean? Jono must be right, I think, that Sony will want to sell more of its lenses (though that remains moot, as Zeiss designs them, and Sony is not really a lens manufacturer - their strength is electronics). To my mind, it looks like Sony sees this segment developing with correction of raw files in post processing, rather than in camera. If they were aiming at simply providing the best raw file possible, with the best sensor they can produce, that is not inconsistent with promoting the use of adapters (Canon & Nikon, but also short register wides that Leica and Zeiss have strength in) and Sony's own development of more compact AF lenses which also have short register distances. Why would they do that? for exactly the same reason that Leica did - size. Soaking up unhappy Leica owners with nice glass is a bonus - it increases the sales of its new camera while giving it time to develop its new FF lenses. Sony will be the only ones offering AF in this size (I assume), so they have a lot to gain by making their new sensor work with existing wides, as they will strike the same issues with their own lenses. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1705 Posted October 28, 2013 And your personal experience with Lux 50 ASPH is? Quoting Tim Ashley by picking critical bits only doesn't really do justice to his review & conclusions which are actually complimentary. Tim has reputation at analysing cameras & lenses to the n-th degree so he would pick up tiniest characteristic and duly report it. If I am to take discussion so far on Fred Miranda, mostly by people who don't own it, far granted I could conclude that lens is hyped up bottom of the milk bottle and worthless. Maybe I better chuck mine into the bin, actually better get rid of my M system altogether Maybe not I referred to those specific comments in Tim's review because naturephoto1 specifically asked how the corners performed on the M9. The 50 LUX ASPH is my all time favourite lens by far. My experience with this lens on both my M9 and an M240 is in line with Tim Ashley's assessment. The lens is not sharp across the frame until stopped down past f5.6. This is not an issue for me since I predominantly shoot this lens wide open. When shot past f2.8 the bokeh becomes quite grubby due to the hexagonal-shaped specular highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1706 Posted October 28, 2013 Making an adapter is a no-brainer - you make them, you sell them, you make a profit . . . . spending many thousands of dollars on firmware development so that someone else can sell more lenses - it's hard to persuade finance departments that this is a good idea. Watch out my friend, Leica still cannot come out with their no-brainer R-M adapter for the Leica masses after nearly 14 months. Shame on them I say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1707 Posted October 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) "Real world" reality check: We have an actual physical camera in our hands now (M240), that by some accounts, when it is used with its own lenses it can out-preforms a D800e. Point being, it is pretty advanced technology and by some accounts the M-system produces the best 35mm format images. So, anyway, all of this conjecture about WA lenses and better sensors makes me wonder what Leica will announce in September 2014 in Cologne... just 11-months away. I assume CMOSIS will provide a higher MP sensor as they have, for example, an 80MP on their website, so they are capable. Leica seems to know the technology of mating short registration lenses to sensors better than anybody. EVF are only getting better. Leica should already have dumped the Maestro processor for something faster. You would think that Leica has some cine connections due to there line of C-Lenses... so they must have somebody they can consult about turning the video into something more professionally relevant. But, for now the big news is the Sony has jumped into the FF mirrorless camera fray with a new system with only a couple of lenses designed specifically for the camera/sensor that will be available. Just making sure I'm not going to get too excited and I am trying to keep this in perspective and not lose track of the real fact that M-system users are still going to be shooting, at the very least, a pretty nice:) camera and lenses... even after November 1, 2013. And, as the images are coming in, the M may still be the best camera to mount M lenses on, imagine that? Exciting times we live in... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1708 Posted October 28, 2013 Rick, I know you love your M(240), and you have an A7R on order. But starting a post which is 90% speculation and 10% subjective opinion with the words "Real world" is a bit of a stretch. I do agree with most of what you say, though. For the same reasons it was logical for Leica to release such a camera 18 months ago (when we expected it), or almost 6 months ago (when Leica lead us to believe that is what they were releasing), it makes sense for them to release the camera ready for production and in quantities to ship at Photokina 2014. That's really going to happen. Honest. I believe it. Really. Meanwhile, my love affair with my Mp9 and Monochrom has not abated - the camera kept working after the M(240) was released. How about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1709 Posted October 28, 2013 My experience with the 50 LUX ASPH on both my M9 and an M240 is in line with Tim Ashley's assessment. The lens is not sharp across the frame until stopped down past f5.6. This is not an issue for me since I predominantly shoot this lens wide open. When shot past f2.8 the bokeh becomes quite grubby due to the hexagonal-shaped specular highlights. I'm not making this as a Leica fanboy comment but the 1.4/50 Summilux aSPH is one of the great 50mm lenses. I think we all need a reality check nitpicking the performance of lenses such this (and looking to $8000K lenses such as the 50 APO-Sumicron to improve our images ) Despite what Tim Ashley wrote I wonder whether you need your lens checked as this is certainly not my experience using this lens, and I certainly don't get 'grubby bokeh'. My prints (up to 24 inches) from this lens on the M9, Monochrom, and M240 are spectacular. Either that or I'm tolerating crap IQ and Bokeh from this lens. Perhaps one man's bokeh is another mans blurr . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1710 Posted October 28, 2013 Meanwhile, my love affair with my Mp9 and Monochrom has not abated - the camera kept working after the M(240) was released. How about that. Amazing. I was expecting the M9 and Monochrom to stop working as soon as the M240 entered the house. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted October 28, 2013 Share #1711 Posted October 28, 2013 Rick, I know you love your M(240), and you have an A7R on order. But starting a post which is 90% speculation and 10% subjective opinion with the words "Real world" is a bit of a stretch. I do agree with most of what you say, though. For the same reasons it was logical for Leica to release such a camera 18 months ago (when we expected it), or almost 6 months ago (when Leica lead us to believe that is what they were releasing), it makes sense for them to release the camera ready for production and in quantities to ship at Photokina 2014. That's really going to happen. Honest. I believe it. Really. Meanwhile, my love affair with my Mp9 and Monochrom has not abated - the camera kept working after the M(240) was released. How about that. Hi John, you know... "real world" is a take off on Steve H. It is one of his favorite saying when he veers off from the technical to his Steve's World that he likes to call his real world camera review. So, this was actually your first indication that my post might be a little tongue in cheeky. But, I did include some objectivity in the speculation and subjectivity, didn't you think. I'll go one further... the RX1 may turn out to be the best camera Sony releases this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1712 Posted October 29, 2013 speaking to my dealer last friday- he mentioned that if you purchase the A7 kit with lens- you get a free lens adapter of your choice: including the option of a new Sony M mount adapter. Is this a US dealer and if so who is it? I've seen no mention of that here or at the NYC show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1713 Posted October 29, 2013 Is the new Sony M mount adapter already available? If so, where could I order one? Thanks. from talking to my dealer it sounded as if he had already seen the M mount ring- or read the specs for it- he said it was extremely thin. But from what I understood you get a certificate for a cash back on the ring when you buy the A7 package set. I don't know if this was just an Australian offer or universal. It certainly makes the a7 package deal very good value. I imagine the kit zoom is not that brilliant- I can't find a price for it anywhere? As far as I can tell it is only available with the kit deal? However it is weather sealed, with image stabilisation and covers a nice range... I am recommending to a friend that he get the kit deal and not the A7r. I am not sure if the rings will be available at the same time as the cameras or some time after. Coming from the Leica world I expect them to be available in very imitated numbers some time in 2015... however knowing Sony they will probably be ready in 2 weeks from now- when the camera is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1714 Posted October 29, 2013 There are plenty of adapter rings available. I don't think Sony has to make their own unless they can do a better job with the Canon electronic interface than Metabones does.or make an AF one for Nikon. I was curious about what kind of adapter Sony in Australia is offering because a Metabones Leica to Nex adapter costs $99 but a Metabones EOS to Nex electronic adapter costs $399. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1715 Posted October 29, 2013 I imagine the kit zoom is not that brilliant- I can't find a price for it anywhere? As far as I can tell it is only available with the kit deal? However it is weather sealed, with image stabilisation and covers a nice range... I am recommending to a friend that he get the kit deal and not the A7r. My dealer advised not to get the zoom as part of the kit, even though it was cheap, as it was a crap lens (my wording). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1716 Posted October 29, 2013 First, I think it is really a sign of fear that Sony is immediately discounted on this forum and elsewhere as an electronics company. I say, let's wait just a month or so and see what happens. I'm confident many of you guys will be disappointed (I mean the ones with fear in their eyes). Second, my M9 definitely is still working, despite the M240 being available everywhere at discount prices As I said earlier, it's not even available where I live, unless you bribe the local importer. Third, there must be a reason why all camera manufacturers are loosing money big time, except for Leica, who's the only company actually showing profitable balance. I will let you speculate on that (hint: how much was that 36 mp mirrorless body?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1717 Posted October 29, 2013 Third, there must be a reason why all camera manufacturers are loosing money big time, except for Leica, who's the only company actually showing profitable balance That's the difference between big and small , the big boys post a loss and continue trading business as usual. The minows would be out on their ear with too many losses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1718 Posted October 29, 2013 Again...not as bad as I was expecting. Steve Huff's post in its entiretyhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1719 Posted October 29, 2013 ..........So, anyway, all of this conjecture about WA lenses and better sensors makes me wonder what Leica will announce in September 2014 in Cologne... just 11-months away............... Jono (along with the other M240 beta testers here) is probably already testing it and Michael likely drafting his first article.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 29, 2013 Share #1720 Posted October 29, 2013 Honky Tonkin’ with the Sony A7 and A7r in Nashville! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS. Interesting indeed thanks. Difficult to be sure in dim light but w/o PP the CV 35/1.2 and 28/2 seem to work fine at first glance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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