dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1321 Posted October 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just to clarify, my "are you listening Leica" comment is referring to a) I could order on day of launch with a 30 day money back guarantee and c) only have to wait 4 weeks until it's delivered to my door. It wasn't a comment on the market share, competitor brands or technical comparison with the M240 (which I've made separately elsewhere in this thread). It was a quick, safe, comfortable shopping experience. My order and delivery or the M240 was the complete opposite, for three times the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
edwardkaraa Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1322 Posted October 21, 2013 For whatever reason it seems there's an assumption here treating the A7r as a replacement for digital Leica Ms; this assumption is generating a lot of heat. It's much more useful to think of the A7r as a adjunct to an existing Leica M system rather than a replacement. Which is the case for almost everyone in this thread whose admitted to preordering one; for the two exceptions (that I recall) to this aren't/weren't M camera users, and at least for one, the M240 is entirely unsuited for his use. Even if it turns out the A7r doesn't handle RF wide angle lenses well, there's little doubt it'll handle longer lenses just fine, as well as macro lenses. Seen as a supplement to the M system, even with the inability to use wide angles, the A7r makes a lot of sense especially so considering the low cost of entry and the additional advantages the A7r brings to the table. Well said. Also for some who are not particularly attached to the RF experience, the Sony with native Zeiss lenses does exactly what the Leica M does, only with auto focus, a bit like the Contax G vs the Leica M7. I did not pre order one yet, but I will certainly get an A7R with the Zeiss 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 and use them along my M9 and ZM lenses. Who knows, I might enjoy this experience more and ultimately make a final switch, but that's too early to tell now. Or I might hate it and go back to using Leica RF exclusively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1323 Posted October 21, 2013 I think leica should know that it's not just that people are looking for a replacement of the M, they are looking at Sony as a replacement for Leica stemming from customer service issues and an underlying sense of arrogance. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1324 Posted October 21, 2013 Well said. Also for some who are not particularly attached to the RF experience, the Sony with native Zeiss lenses does exactly what the Leica M does, only with auto focus. I did not pre order one, but I will certainly get an A7R with the Zeiss 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 and use them along my M9 and ZM lenses. Who knows, I might enjoy this experience more and ultimately make a final switch, but that's too early to tell now. Or I might hate it and go back to using Leica RF exclusively. And just to pick up on this. All the internet clamouring and defending is good fun and everything, it's also as pointed out useful to hear other perspectives. But I've ordered this camera and it will go in the bag together with the M240. Hopefully everyone here shoots enough to understand that the "best" camera will pick itself, it's not a difficult or intellectual decision. You shoot with both for a few months and gradually one starts to first stay in the bag, then it doesn't come out of the shelf ..... Nothing anyone has said here, pro or con either system will change that process, it never does. It is what it is. We'll see. Or rather I'll see, which is all I care about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1325 Posted October 21, 2013 If it's true it will be digital remake of the classic Nikon SLR with slap up mirror & optical viewfinder. Distance between flange and film/sensor plane is 46.5mm. Leica M lenses just don't work except for extreme close up. Is that the case with M>F adapter. Regarding wide M lenses on Sony A7 and A7R; Ron's conclusion - if it looks bad on A7 it will look worse on A7R. 1. A7R’s sensor has off set micro-lenses designed to better capture light hitting edges/corners — A7 sensor does not. 2. A7R micro-lenses have gapless design. A7′s sensor doesn’t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1326 Posted October 21, 2013 Those who have ordered the Sony 7 or 7R or who are considering doing so may want to think twice: Nikon Rumors Rumors are rumors, but I would not be surprised if Nikon is behind this in an effort to redirect the stampede. Sure is getting interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1327 Posted October 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Those who have ordered the Sony 7 or 7R or who are considering doing so may want to think twice: Nikon Rumors Rumors are rumors, but I would not be surprised if Nikon is behind this in an effort to redirect the stampede. Sure is getting interesting. Thanks. Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1328 Posted October 21, 2013 Those who have ordered the Sony 7 or 7R or who are considering doing so may want to think twice: Nikon Rumors Rumors are rumors, but I would not be surprised if Nikon is behind this in an effort to redirect the stampede. Sure is getting interesting. Not interested in the least. Interested in the Sony A7r though. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1329 Posted October 21, 2013 The return policy and purchase is direct from Sony. I think it's obvious why Leica should listen. Ok, well, Sony doesn't offer that in Norway at least. Must be dependant on the market you are in. I would never expect a manufacturer to offer that type of service though. There would be a flood of people abusing the policy, and for small niche companies it is simply not an option that would work (ie: it would cause the company to go bankrupt very quickly). I guess Sony can afford the returns... Oh wait, that's right, Sony hasn't made money for like a decade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1330 Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks. Why? Why? Because a camera is an investment, particularly when lenses are taken into account. Three weeks is not much time, particularly when the Sony products aren't scheduled to ship until December. I have the Sony 7R on order, but thought about canceling last week (before Nikon). I'll leave my order in for the time being, but never hurts to hear what the other guy is offering. My biggest concern with the Sony is the shutter noise. Seems trivial, but a noisy shutter doesn't work during a a quiet piano or bass solo. But my post was largely informational. From my perspective, it only matters what I do. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1331 Posted October 21, 2013 Thanks. I try to keep an open mind as well, having M9, D800E, NEX-7, E-M1, A7R on order. However, I don't think the rumored Nikon will displace any of my cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1332 Posted October 21, 2013 Why? Because a camera is an investment, particularly when lenses are taken into account. Three weeks is not much time, particularly when the Sony products aren't scheduled to ship until December. I have the Sony 7R on order, but thought about canceling last week (before Nikon). I'll leave my order in for the time being, but never hurts to hear what the other guy is offering. My biggest concern with the Sony is the shutter noise. Seems trivial, but a noisy shutter doesn't work during a a quiet piano or bass solo... Sure and with a pentaprism not an ugly EVF? I want to see that. I have enough Nikon lenses to forget Sony and their problems with Leica lenses although the A7R remains interesting for high resolution telephoto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1333 Posted October 21, 2013 After reading the article about how lens adapters introduce image problems, I intend to obtain one of the cheap adapters to see how well it is made. I work with the US Navy's measurement science department where we can accurately measure to 1 millionths of an inch in a temperature and huinidity controlled environment. If anyone knows the designed specification depth of the adapters, that would be helpful. On the automated measuring system we can accurately measure to 10 millionths of an inch which should be adequate for this purpose. I can check for uniformity of depth over the entire cirumference as well as flatness. If the design tolerance is known, we can quicly determine whether the adapter is within specifications or not. It would seem that many testers rely on adapters of unknown chracteristics and thus unknown optical qualities result from mounting lenses on these adapters. Our machnie shop can also bring the item into uniformity and specifications provided their is enough material. I will report back on what I learn once I get a chance to do this experiment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1334 Posted October 21, 2013 Sure and with a pentaprism not an ugly EVF? I want to see that. I have enough Nikon lenses to forget Sony and their problems with Leica lenses although the A7R remains interesting for high resolution telephoto. For extra reach the NEX-7 is hard to beat though. The 36 MP D800E would need about 57 or so MP to match the resolving power of the NEX-7. The E-M1 has even a little bit more. But, of course if you need the FOV of FF then you need a FF camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1335 Posted October 21, 2013 After reading the article about how lens adapters introduce image problems, I intend to obtain one of the cheap adapters to see how well it is made. I work with the US Navy's measurement science department where we can accurately measure to 1 millionths of an inch in a temperature and huinidity controlled environment. If anyone knows the designed specification depth of the adapters, that would be helpful. On the automated measuring system we can accurately measure to 10 millionths of an inch which should be adequate for this purpose. I can check for uniformity of depth over the entire cirumference as well as flatness. If the design tolerance is known, we can quicly determine whether the adapter is within specifications or not. It would seem that many testers rely on adapters of unknown chracteristics and thus unknown optical qualities result from mounting lenses on these adapters. Our machnie shop can also bring the item into uniformity and specifications provided their is enough material. I will report back on what I learn once I get a chance to do this experiment. Thanks John. That's terrific. I am looking forward to your measurements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1336 Posted October 21, 2013 Why? Because a camera is an investment, particularly when lenses are taken into account. Three weeks is not much time, particularly when the Sony products aren't scheduled to ship until December. I have the Sony 7R on order, but thought about canceling last week (before Nikon). I'll leave my order in for the time being, but never hurts to hear what the other guy is offering. My biggest concern with the Sony is the shutter noise. Seems trivial, but a noisy shutter doesn't work during a a quiet piano or bass solo. But my post was largely informational. From my perspective, it only matters what I do. Cheers If it were canon I'd agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1337 Posted October 21, 2013 I'm surprised at this. I have never paid a deposit for a camera order. Historically a deposit was to protect the shop from being left with an unsaleable item - hardly a risk here. Why pay a shop for its stock? You appreciate your payment is unsecured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1338 Posted October 21, 2013 I'm surprised at this. I have never paid a deposit for a camera order. Historically a deposit was to protect the shop from being left with an unsaleable item - hardly a risk here. Why pay a shop for its stock? You appreciate your payment is unsecured. Not sure what you mean? I ordered a new iMac a few weeks back, direct from apple. Payed on the same day, it had a build and delivery time of 4 weeks. I ordered a new A7R a week back, direct from Sony. Payed on the same day, it had a build and delivery time of 4 weeks. I don't feel particularly unsecured? A purchase agreement if no honoured is simply theft. Product or money back. It's pretty straightforward. And I'm not talking eBay here after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1339 Posted October 21, 2013 Not sure what you mean? I ordered a new iMac a few weeks back, direct from apple. Payed on the same day, it had a build and delivery time of 4 weeks. I ordered a new A7R a week back, direct from Sony. Payed on the same day, it had a build and delivery time of 4 weeks. I don't feel particularly unsecured? A purchase agreement if no honoured is simply theft. Product or money back. It's pretty straightforward. And I'm not talking eBay here after all. Have they actually transferred your money? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1340 Posted October 21, 2013 Yup, so did apple. So do all the amazon purchases that take while to actually arrive. What am I missing? edit, I'm not US by the way. Maybe things are different there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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