Is this a processing error?

[Esther]

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Hi, this is my second roll of B&W film using M6 on Ilford HP5. I don't know how to develop so I send it to a local lab to process and print. One of the prints shows a faint light gray circle located where the blue sky is (approx. center of the picture, right above the roof). It's on the scanned image they make too. I don't see the same spot on any other photos of the roll but there are only a couple others with the sky as background. The rest are mostly buildings and people which may make it difficult to see the spot. This was the only b&w film i took on the trip. I also shot four rolls of color film, with the same lens and camera, and I didn't see anything unusual on the prints.

 

I want to rule out this is something to do with my camera or my 50 summicron. Can someone tell me if this looks like a processing error? Any comments on this are greatly appreciated.

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[TomB_tx]

If it were a spot on the negative I'd expect more clearly defined edges - instead it looks out of focus. Could well be from enlarging/scanning, or if this shot had the lens stopped way down, possibly a bit of dust on the rear lens element.

Inspect the negative with a magnifier and see if you can see it there.

[Esther]

If it were a spot on the negative I'd expect more clearly defined edges - instead it looks out of focus. Could well be from enlarging/scanning, or if this shot had the lens stopped way down, possibly a bit of dust on the rear lens element.

Inspect the negative with a magnifier and see if you can see it there.

 

Thank you for the comments. The shot may very well be shot with the lens stopped down to f16. However, this is not the only pictures I took on the same day/trip set at f16. I don't see in other photos. I don't believe I notice a dust in/on the rear element either. That's why I suspect it's processing. if the spot is not on the negative, then I know it's not the lens. IF it is on the negative also, can it still possibly something like "air bells"?

[250swb]

There is no way a 50mm Summicron can cast a dust spot onto the negative even stopped down all the way. It is most likely a dust blob when the film was being scanned or some other processing error, prior to the results being printed. It is not your camera or lens.

 

Steve

[tobey bilek]

Reverse your lens and look at the neg. If on the neg it is a processing or coating defect.

 

Possibly an air bubble kept developer from fully getting to that spot or fixer did not clean off the undeveloped silver.

 

There could be dust on the scanner lens.

 

I have a light box for my enlarger that has a piece of debris inside and very occasionally it blocks some light. It looks like this, but is lighter, not darker.

[erl]

My bet it is an air bell during developing. Many years since I saw one. A dim memory tells me air bells have an anulus or darker ring surrounding them though, so maybe it is not one.

 

Checking the negative will definitely prove yeh or nay. Also, the outline of an air bell is clearly defined. Hmm. Not an air bell then.

 

puzzled.

[kokoshawnuff]

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There are also quite a few faint horizontal lines running straight across the image (most visible in the sky)...this is very likely a scanning issue, so it would not be surprising if the same lab that made this scan also made a a mistake in the development. Like others have said, neither your camera nor your lens are at fault.

[Esther]

Reverse your lens and look at the neg. If on the neg it is a processing or coating defect.

 

Possibly an air bubble kept developer from fully getting to that spot or fixer did not clean off the undeveloped silver.

 

There could be dust on the scanner lens.

 

I have a light box for my enlarger that has a piece of debris inside and very occasionally it blocks some light. It looks like this, but is lighter, not darker.

Thank you. I'll try your method of using my lens since I don't have a magnifier. I did look over light without magnifier last night but couldn't see anything...

[Esther]

My bet it is an air bell during developing. Many years since I saw one. A dim memory tells me air bells have an anulus or darker ring surrounding them though, so maybe it is not one.

 

Checking the negative will definitely prove yeh or nay. Also, the outline of an air bell is clearly defined. Hmm. Not an air bell then.

 

puzzled.

 

I asked the technician, one who did the developing, to see what he thinks. He said "I don't know much about it, I just did what I was told to do." Huh? So I am hoping to take it back to the lab and show the negative and prints to "the boss". Hopefully he can explain better and fix it if possible. I did look at the negative myself without a magnifying glass and couldn't see anything.

[Esther]

There are also quite a few faint horizontal lines running straight across the image (most visible in the sky)...this is very likely a scanning issue, so it would not be surprising if the same lab that made this scan also made a a mistake in the development. Like others have said, neither your camera nor your lens are at fault.

 

You are absolutely right. Actually faint horizontal lines is another issue I need to discuss with them because they show up in a few other pictures. I had the same lab did the developing, scanning, and printing. According to my conversation with them, they develop the film, scan it, and print from the digital files. This would explain why these spots and lines are both on my prints and the image files. It sure is frustrating to trouble shooting what went wrong but I'm glad to know most people think it's not my camera or lens' fault. But i don't understand how a scanner creates horizontal lines. Would you mind explaining it? I am not questioning or debating. it's more for my knowledge. Thank you.

[Esther]

There is no way a 50mm Summicron can cast a dust spot onto the negative even stopped down all the way. It is most likely a dust blob when the film was being scanned or some other processing error, prior to the results being printed. It is not your camera or lens.

 

Steve

Thank you for the reassurance! Very nice flickr gallery you have.

[kokoshawnuff]

But i don't understand how a scanner creates horizontal lines. Would you mind explaining it?

 

Things that cause this could be scanner software, reflections, dirty scanner glass, or other issues I'm forgetting right now. I'd speak to the manager of your lab (to get your money back for scans) and consider a different lab in the future if that is possible where you're located. The dot you mentioned in the original post is easy to remove in post process, the lines are not.

[250swb]

I would assume the lines are caused in the film processing or scanning. Typically lines caused by the camera, like grit on the pressure plate or in the film gate are very sharp. So they could be caused by drying, perhaps with a squeegee.

 

The advice to try another lab is good, send the same negatives off and what comes back will clear an awful lot up, one way or another. The upside of paying twice for the same job is that you might find a good processor!

 

Steve

[kokoshawnuff]

they could be caused by drying, perhaps with a squeegee.

 

Indeed a possibility. I've never used a squeegee, but the lines look exactly what could be caused by one. I've seen similar issues from scanning, but perhaps not as uniformly sized and spaced.

[erl]

Scanner 'lines' imo are usually found across the shortest dimension of the film. I assume the image above is relatively uncropped and shows lines across the longest dimension. That possibly leaves a squeegee or marks from a roller transport processor.

 

Thinking outside the square, maybe re-washing the film may throw up a result.

[garysamson]

Scanner 'lines' imo are usually found across the shortest dimension of the film. I assume the image above is relatively uncropped and shows lines across the longest dimension. That possibly leaves a squeegee or marks from a roller transport processor.

 

Thinking outside the square, maybe re-washing the film may throw up a result.

 

+1

[Esther]

+1

 

Things that cause this could be scanner software, reflections, dirty scanner glass, or other issues I'm forgetting right now. I'd speak to the manager of your lab (to get your money back for scans) and consider a different lab in the future if that is possible where you're located. The dot you mentioned in the original post is easy to remove in post process, the lines are not.

 

I would assume the lines are caused in the film processing or scanning. Typically lines caused by the camera, like grit on the pressure plate or in the film gate are very sharp. So they could be caused by drying, perhaps with a squeegee.

 

The advice to try another lab is good, send the same negatives off and what comes back will clear an awful lot up, one way or another. The upside of paying twice for the same job is that you might find a good processor!

 

Steve

 

Indeed a possibility. I've never used a squeegee, but the lines look exactly what could be caused by one. I've seen similar issues from scanning, but perhaps not as uniformly sized and spaced.

 

Scanner 'lines' imo are usually found across the shortest dimension of the film. I assume the image above is relatively uncropped and shows lines across the longest dimension. That possibly leaves a squeegee or marks from a roller transport processor.

 

Thinking outside the square, maybe re-washing the film may throw up a result.

 

Thank you all very much for the ideas and suggestions! They have been really reassuring and helpful. I am going to the lab and suggest them to do the few things you have mentioned.

[pop]

I noticed the horizontal lines as well and presumed that they were the result of your scanning the print, especially because I thought I could make out some very faint markings which could be some logo or emblem printed on the back side of the prints.

Some flatbed scanners use the first inch or so of the scanning area to calibrate their sensors. It will adjust the individual sensors to account for any differences in brightness it detects there. If there is dust in that area, the scanner will mistakenly "adjust" the sensors, thus producing stripes in the direction it moves the scanning head.

If the stripes are present on the prints you got from the lab, return them.

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[Bill Clark]

Thought to help,

 

could you get the negative processed with a regular darkroom? If these irregularities are not present then the scanning is the culprit.

 

or have you tried using a magnifying glass to look at the negatives?

 

I don't believe it's your camera or lens.

[Esther]

Thought to help,

 

could you get the negative processed with a regular darkroom? If these irregularities are not present then the scanning is the culprit.

 

or have you tried using a magnifying glass to look at the negatives?

 

I don't believe it's your camera or lens.

Thank you. The manager at the lab looked at the negatives and said it's not on it. They are redoing the prints for me so we shall see.