Dlux6 vs LX7 Don't laugh

[Northwest Wanderer]

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Badbob,

Maybe this is not the right forum for you. There are other Leica sites that may be more to your liking. Seeing nobody seems to share your view maybe it's better if you look for a site that does.

[andybarton]

Can you show a shot of the underside? With the labels?

[Guest badbob]

Can you show a shot of the underside? With the labels?

 

Can I read out the details here instead of uploading a photo? It says Leica Camera Germany, Made in Japan, serial no. apparently is 4509717. On the left end it says Leica D-Lux 6.

[Guest badbob]

Badbob, Maybe this is not the right forum for you. There are other Leica sites that may be more to your liking. Seeing nobody seems to share your view maybe it's better if you look for a site that does.

 

Are you suggesting that I go somewhere where the majority of members (or perhaps a small minority such as yourself and a couple of others here) are less hostile? Is that what you're suggesting? My thinking is, if you're going to continue to be hostile to Leica customers because of a personality clash only, then a forum such as this is not for *you*.

[Guytou]

Can I read out the details here instead of uploading a photo? It says Leica Camera Germany, Made in Japan, serial no. apparently is 4509717. On the left end it says Leica D-Lux 6.

 

OK, thank you, it is what I wanted to know.

 

It is thus manufactured in Japan by Panasonic, like every series D-Lux and LX, then equipped outside by G-Star.

 

It is not produced at all manufactured entirely by Leica in Germany like X Vario for example.

 

Guy

[Guest badbob]

OK, thank you, it is what I wanted to know. It is thus manufactured in Japan by Panasonic, like every series D-Lux and LX, then equipped outside by G-Star. It is not produced at all manufactured entirely by Leica in Germany like X Vario for example. Guy

 

What you say here I knew when I paid $1200 for the G-Star camera, and various people told me it was purely an LX7 worth $350. And so I asked what value Leica adds to the camera irrespective of Lightroom, and the answer seems to be "Nothing". The fact that value may be added physically by the Panasonic partner in their facility does not say that "Leica is not adding value". Reread this again if you misunderstand what I just said. I'm asking Leica what value is added, not in whose facility or by who is doing the physical work.

[Guytou]

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But I never said the opposite for the added value !

 

I say simply that the dress in fact not the monk and that, G-Star or not, it always acts of a D-Lux 6 manufactured by Panasonic with an interior mechanics identical to the LX 7.

 

Guy

[Guest badbob]

I showed the bottom of the camera to my partner, noting the label:

 

Leica Camera Germany

Made in Japan

 

and I asked her "What does this say to you?"

 

And she replied "It says to me that this is a Leica camera, and that we make this camera in Japan."

[andybarton]

What you say here I knew when I paid $1200 for the G-Star camera, and various people told me it was purely an LX7 worth $350. And so I asked what value Leica adds to the camera irrespective of Lightroom, and the answer seems to be "Nothing". The fact that value may be added physically by the Panasonic partner in their facility does not say that "Leica is not adding value". Reread this again if you misunderstand what I just said. I'm asking Leica what value is added, not in whose facility or by who is doing the physical work.

 

 

You already know that Leica will not give you a direct answer and plenty of others here have already told you why the Leica version of the camera is more expensive (software, warranty, cachet, etc).

 

The G-Star version, also made on the same line in Panasonic's factory, is even more expensive, because it's a limited edition, "different" and G-Star will be taking a royalty for the use of their name.

 

11 years ago, when Leica first began its partnership with Panasonic, they started out with the Digilux 1 and the LC5. I have an LC5 on my shelf in front of me - Leica UK couldn't get me a Digilux 1 when I wanted it, at that time. THEN, the firmware between these two non-identical twins was different. Leica had software engineers adjust some of the standard contrast and saturation settings from the Panasonic original firmware to "Leica-fy" the look of the output (IIRC, this camera only produced jpg or tiff files, so there was no opportunity to fiddle with a RAW file). It was a bit like Fuji selling different versions of their colour films in Japan and the rest of the world - Japanese customers like more highly saturated photographs, apparently, so the film is formulated to give them what they like.

 

As time has gone on, and cameras have progressed and developed, Leica no longer tweak the firmware on these japanese cameras. If you want a more contrasty or saturated image form a RAW file, tweaking it is extremely simple in any editing software. You can even set your software up to automatically add (or subtract) contrast and saturation to your own taste, of course.

[Guest badbob]

But I never said the opposite for the added value !

 

I say simply that the dress in fact not the monk and that, G-Star or not, it always acts of a D-Lux 6 manufactured by Panasonic with an interior mechanics identical to the LX 7.

 

Guy

 

I have no argument with that - I repeat again that my simple question is: What value does Leica add, regardless of who does the physical manufacturing and assembly?

[andybarton]

"It says to me that this is a Leica camera, and that we make this camera in Japan."

 

Your partner is 99% correct.

 

It's a Leica camera because it says so on it. But, it's made for Leica, by Panasonic. Leica do not make their own cameras in Japan, they have their partner make them for them. Nowadays, Leica only have factories in Portugal and Germany (the Midland, Ontario one has long left the company)

 

Would you be surprised to know that Leica lenses (the ones made by them, themselves, in Germany, by hand) use glass from various countries of the world, including Japan?

[timd.]

I have no argument with that - I repeat again that my simple question is: What value does Leica add, regardless of who does the physical manufacturing and assembly?

 

adobe lightroom, a different design, longer warranty and, in the end, a higher reselling price. with the g-star edition you get a limited version, the case and deluxe strap, and, once more, a slightly altered design. (as already said by the posters above)

[Guest badbob]

Your partner is 99% correct.

 

It's a Leica camera because it says so on it. But, it's made for Leica, by Panasonic. Leica do not make their own cameras in Japan, they have their partner make them for them. Nowadays, Leica only have factories in Portugal and Germany (the Midland, Ontario one has long left the company)

 

Would you be surprised to know that Leica lenses (the ones made by them, themselves, in Germany, by hand) use glass from various countries of the world, including Japan?

 

To my knowledge, this subject came up because several people claimed that Leica adds no value whatsoever to the standard D-Lux6 camera (ignoring Lightroom).

 

I have a long background in Manufacturing, including sitting on large quantities of Montgomery Wards tires (and other brands) that were made by my company (Firestone) and were sitting in my Firestone warehouse.

 

None of those concepts of OEM'ing or anything else has escaped my notice, so 99 percent of the replies here have been unnecessary and in fact don't address the question. Leica may not answer the first question I posted here yesterday or the day prior. But sooner or later they will answer, because it's a very fair question.

 

More than just being a fair question is the fact that I purchased the G-Star, where I don't normally purchase Pana-Leicas for the very reasons you have noted that I knew as well. But, since I didn't merely purchase a Pana-Leica, but instead got a special edition, I can feel comfortable recommending the G-Star on the basis of being a special edition, as well as including a perfect (to me) complement of accessories.

 

But I'm not at the point where I have a satisfactory answer for the difference between the LX7 at $500 MSRP and the D-Lux6 at $800 MSRP in the same markets. The "answers" I've gotten here have been largely from the same people who have expressed hostility at Leica for price-gouging on the standard D-Lux6, and that hostility is usually wrapped in a comparison of the "$300 LX7 -vs- the $1300 G-Star Raw".

 

Either way, what I require from Leica isn't a lot to ask, but so far none of the so-called explanations from users here has addressed the question outside of innuendo, speculation, inference, and assumption. If nothing were accomplished so far, then I only wish 'nothing' were absent the hostility and disrespect.

[Guest badbob]

Would you be surprised to know that Leica lenses (the ones made by them, themselves, in Germany, by hand) use glass from various countries of the world, including Japan?

 

There is much going on in lens design from several standpoints, including materials. I was very interested in Casio's push into ceramic lenses several years ago, but not much has been written about that in the consumer tech press since then. I don't generally go looking for such information without a lead on a major new effort, but I remain curious.

 

A good analogy of tech sharing can be seen in Apple devices under Settings/General/About/Legal - there are a plethora of entities involved, and if we were to dig into the D-Lux6 in all of its aspects, including firmware, lens, body materials, LCD panels, patents, and all the rest, I think we would see a much larger body of participants than Leica and Panasonic alone.

 

But with all of that you can go off in any direction without telling the customer the specific differences that Leica orders for the D-Lux6, assuming that those orders are carried out exclusively by Panasonic.

[timd.]

To my knowledge, this subject came up because several people claimed that Leica adds no value whatsoever to the standard D-Lux6 camera (ignoring Lightroom).

 

are we talking about the same thread? i'm thinking about posts 3, 4, 18 (and more)... how often do you want the others to tell about the software bundle?

[andybarton]

I'm out of this discussion. Badbob has been told 100 times what the difference between the Leica and Panasonic versions of the camera are. I am not going to waste any more of my time.

 

The biggest reason why the Panasonic is $300 and the Leica is $800 is that Leica can get away with it.

[Thomv]

I'm out of this discussion. Badbob has been told 100 times what the difference between the Leica and Panasonic versions of the camera are. I am not going to waste any more of my time.

 

The biggest reason why the Panasonic is $300 and the Leica is $800 is that Leica can get away with it.

And it has the Leica dot plus a very smart hand grip too.

[bill]

Indeed. And the only poster to use the pejorative term "price gouging" is...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

[Lee Martin]

Don't say anything, but Leica binoculars are being made by Nikon !! ( I'm out , bye bob, it was , er interesting!!)

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Lux

[koray]

 

...

A good analogy of tech sharing can be seen in Apple devices under Settings/General/About/Legal - there are a plethora of entities involved, and if we were to dig into the D-Lux6 in all of its aspects, including firmware, lens, body materials, LCD panels, patents, and all the rest, I think we would see a much larger body of participants than Leica and Panasonic alone.

 

But with all of that you can go off in any direction without telling the customer the specific differences that Leica orders for the D-Lux6, assuming that those orders are carried out exclusively by Panasonic.

 

Very entertaining thread, indeed!

 

Dear badbob, I should mention that since their foray into digital cameras Panasonic (used to be Matsushita) have preferred to use their in-house manufactured components and technologies in their cameras (i.e., sensors, LCDs, even capacitors). This meant that for many early years (around 2004-2008) customers had to bear with awful CCD sensors from Matsushita while other brands (i.e. Nikon, Canon) were putting much better Sony sensors into their cameras. The only exception to that was Panasonic LC1 or Leica Digilux 2, which was a serious experiment with a lot of Leica involvement. There a Sony sensor was used - and sadly it was from a batch plagued with bad adhesive, leading to failure under hot-humid conditions. If you know Leica that good, you must know the camera, and the story.

 

Now let me tell you, LC1 and Digilux 2 are identical cameras - except for the external styling and some firmware differences. How do I know? Well, I used to repair them. Inside, they are completely identical. Part numbers, screws, lens assembly, all identical. Now don't start yelling at me like others claiming that I am not working for Leica.

 

Here is another point, that was repeated by others many times: Leica still honors free repairs on Leica Digilux 2 sensors, no questions asked. But Panasonic charges the customers for the repair since all these cameras are out of warranty. This is what you pay for when you get a Leica, premium service - full stop.

 

Now apparently the exterior design of your G-Star camera was contributed by a denim company (this is the first time I hear that brand, by the way), and that is basically what you are paying extra for. Maybe you love G-Star brand, maybe your wardrobe is full of their jeans, I don't know, but seriously, that is what you have paid for. Yes, it is a limited edition camera, but I don't think it will even hold value like others suggest. See Stephen Gandy's (cameraquest) insight into heaps of Leica special, commemorative editions, particularly during the reign of Leica M6: Leica M Investment Guide

 

Stephen Gandy's words:

M6's have been cursed by some ridiculous commemoratives under the guise of making an instant collectible to get the maximum bucks. The one which gets my loudest laughs is the "Royal Danish Wedding" M6. Who can imagine what Solm's marketing geniuses will try to make a buck on, err....commemorate next? I hoped a "Royal Charles and Diana Divorce" Leica would be sure to follow, alas not yet.

 

 

Now let's get back to G-Star D-Lux 6. Where was it made in? JAPAN. Made completely with innards of LX7 - D-lux 6, loaded with some custom software (which Leica has stopped changing much lately, actually), including all accessories and paperwork and boxed in Japan.. But believe me, I am in this repair business and Leica, Panasonic, those compact cameras they all share the exactly same components.

 

Sorry mate. You should have kept that X1. Now that camera is MORE LEICA to me.

 

K.