sfage Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1821 Posted June 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Irrationality is reaching new heights on this good old forum. Bullshit! It's a slow, read: shitty... zoom lens, no viewfinder (like a "real" photographer would want), WAY HIGHER than the cost of the competition, with a toy flash on it... and a hobbyist's size sensor. What is this "irrationality" you're speaking of? Wow... if I paid seven grand for an M240 and waited for months and months and months, I'd be furious right now. "You've come out with a new camera and yet, I am waiting on MY camera... which I am paying seven thousand dollars for." You want to talk about irrationality? There's some friggin' irrationality for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 12, 2013 Posted June 12, 2013 Hi sfage, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
D Spohn Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1822 Posted June 12, 2013 As others have tried to point out ... an f2 to f2.8 zoom lens is not an ergonomic or practical proposition on an APS-C compact camera. Few people seem to appreciate the fact and thus they continue to protest. Their protestations are unjustified because their wants are unreasonable. dunk Well then, this is just not the camera I need. It would do fine for fine art landscape photography, but I have a Hasselblad for that. I understand that an APS C compact camera with interchangeable lenses is too expensive for a company Leica's size to afford the R&D. As I stated originally, I might still buy an X2. I can live with the lack of zoom in exchange for the faster lens. This past weekend I was at the Kerrville Folk Festival and took some photos of friends playing on the stage at Threadgill Theatre. With the RX 100 I was shooting at ISO 3200 wide open at the long end. With the X Vario I would have been shooting at ISO 6400 to keep the shutter speed fast enough to freeze their faces. Sadly, this camera does not meet my needs. With the X2 I would probably have been shooting at ISO 800. I also shot a lot of photos of our Korndog Family Reunion where we all dressed up in our worst trailer trash outfits. This was late in the afternoon, and the RX 100 did a fine job. The X Vario would have done that session also, but the Sony had me covered. I really need the new M 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1823 Posted June 12, 2013 No it is not. Walking around with most mirrorless or DSLR cameras is not going to send that message to anyone. (Whether they are good photographers or not.) And more than a few really good photographers have to struggle to pay for their cameras... whether Leicas or other brands. But they probably would not go for this one. I teach a group of photographers who use all types of cameras and the majority of them do not have a clue about their camera when they bring it to the practical sessions ... but they delight in telling me how much they paid for it and how good a camera it is. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1824 Posted June 12, 2013 I teach a group of photographers who use all types of cameras and the majority of them do not have a clue about their camera when they bring it to the practical sessions ... but they delight in telling me how much they paid for it and how good a camera it is. dunk Fine but that is not what I am eluding to. What I am describing is the impression that carrying an X Vario will make on knowledgeable photographers. Whereas if I see someone sporting a D800 I can't be sure if that person is a pro or a poseur... if I bothered to think about it at all. In that regard the X Vario and Hassy Lunar will project similar images on the owners. But at least the HasSony will be more useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1825 Posted June 12, 2013 Bullshit!... Irrationality or hysteria? Not everybody is forced to share your tastes and nobody has to buy the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
W4Leica Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1826 Posted June 12, 2013 I am disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1827 Posted June 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I teach a group of photographers who use all types of cameras and the majority of them do not have a clue about their camera when they bring it to the practical sessions ... but they delight in telling me how much they paid for it and how good a camera it is. dunk Tell them to buy this. The chapter on composition alone, is worth the price of the book. http://www.amazon.ca/Classical-Painting-Atelier-Contemporary-Traditional/dp/0823006581 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1828 Posted June 12, 2013 Irrationality or hysteria?Not everybody is forced to share your tastes and nobody has to buy the M240. I am not forcing anyone. In fact, it appears to be happening autonomously. I don't even know any of these people. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2346162'>More sharing options...
sfage Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1829 Posted June 12, 2013 ... and of course, further down the page.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2346166'>More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1830 Posted June 12, 2013 The real innovation would have been a compact M-Mount body with integrated EVF focus peaking. Give it an APS-H sensor and call it a "Mini M" if you must. At least that would be an apt name. An M8 is no substitute because of the inherent problems in using a rangefinder with lenses such as I've described above. This solution already exists. It is the Sony NEX 6. It has all the features you are talking about here. I am waiting on delivery of my refurbed M9-P, and will use the NEX 6 as a high ISO, low-light, macro and tele and the occasional video companion to the M9. I have been using the NEX 6 for about 7 months and it does a great job in those roles all the while using my beloved M lenses. I still miss shooting an M with the optical viewfinder, so I had to get the M9. My other system is Nikon with a D700 with some great Nikkor lenses and converted R lenses. With the M9-P, NEX 6 and D700, I have all my photographic bases nicely covered. BTW, back in 2009 when the M9 and the X1 were introduced at a dealer meeting I attended, I suggested that the X1 really should have had an interchangeable M mount, the Leica people loked at me like I had a third eye in the middle of my forehead! Maybe someday they will come out with such a beast, but for now, the NEX 6 is great in this role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Spohn Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1831 Posted June 12, 2013 ... and of course, further down the page.... Have you not noticed the 2,300+ likes between those threads? Seems more people like the camera than dislike it. Methinks you are cherry picking quotes. And this comes from someone disappointed in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1832 Posted June 12, 2013 Have you not noticed the 2,300+ likes between those threads? The silent majority? How many employees does Leica have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1833 Posted June 12, 2013 Went for a walk at lunch time and was surprised to see the X-Vario in the local Leica shop. They got it yesterday. Exactly the same price as the RX-1. Hmm, know which I'd chose. The X-Vario is surprisingly large, and does not have the build quality of the RX-1. It does, however, have the simplicity of controls typical of Leica and the nice user interface. I was reasonably impressed, but it's not for me. It would have set the world alight 5 or 6 years ago ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1834 Posted June 12, 2013 Closing in on the 2,000 post mark! Quite an overreaction to a modest compact. But other Leicas have also been controversial. I wonder what response there would have been if the internet had been around when the M5 was released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1835 Posted June 12, 2013 Have you not noticed the 2,300+ likes between those threads? Seems more people like the camera than dislike it. Methinks you are cherry picking quotes. And this comes from someone disappointed in the camera. Of the 226 comments now posted on fb well over 90% are still negative, many strongly critical of the camera and the company. There are 1000+ "Likes" but it is hard to gauge those in relation to the comments, which take more time and effort. Anyway I look at this I cannot help but feel this is a bad day for Leica, especially the marketing department. Two years ago this camera would have been a huge hit in China, but I think Leica is going to have a very hard time now. There will probably be an initial rush of sales, but I think in very short order this will be a camera that is "in stock" everywhere in asia, just like the X2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1836 Posted June 12, 2013 The FB lemmings are suffering from the same hysteria. dunk similar to the lemmings who blindly applaud anything with a red dot on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1837 Posted June 12, 2013 The real innovation would have been a compact M-Mount body with integrated EVF focus peaking. Give it an APS-H sensor and call it a "Mini M" if you must. At least that would be an apt name. An M8 is no substitute because of the inherent problems in using a rangefinder with lenses such as I've described above. This solution already exists. It is the Sony NEX 6. It has all the features you are talking about here. I am waiting on delivery of my refurbed M9-P, and will use the NEX 6 as a high ISO, low-light, macro and tele and the occasional video companion to the M9. I have been using the NEX 6 for about 7 months and it does a great job in those roles all the while using my beloved M lenses. I still miss shooting an M with the optical viewfinder, so I had to get the M9. My other system is Nikon with a D700 with some great Nikkor lenses and converted R lenses. With the M9-P, NEX 6 and D700, I have all my photographic bases nicely covered. BTW, back in 2009 when the M9 and the X1 were introduced at a dealer meeting I attended, I suggested that the X1 really should have had an interchangeable M mount, the Leica people loked at me like I had a third eye in the middle of my forehead! Maybe someday they will come out with such a beast, but for now, the NEX 6 is great in this role. If you read the focus peaking reviews vs the mechanical rangefinder for accuracy you might be surprised. But I do agree with the desire for an M mount cheaper solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1838 Posted June 12, 2013 Imagine if Leica had come out with an X Vario with a 2.8 zoom lens. It would be huge. And then 2,000 people here would be all, "That thing is too big! Who's going to buy it? Leica has lost the plot!" etc etc. Imagine if Leica had come out with an X with an M mount. It would sell for $3,000. And then 2,000 people here would be all, "My God, who would want to buy an APS-C like that when I could just get a Fuji at 1/3 the price??? I'd rather buy the R1, at least it's full frame!" etc etc. I read the responses and I find them worth a chuckle. It's just a camera. Don't like it? Buy a Fuji. Me, I like it, as a concept, but since it doesn't have a built-in VF I can't buy it cos (a) my eyes can't focus on LCD screens anymore, and ( I don't like external VFs. But I'm not going to dump on it, because I know I have other choices. As for the image quality, I was playing with the V-Lux 4 in the store looking for a compact travel camera, and if Leica/Panasonic could do THAT with a tiny sensor, I have confidence they would do even better with an APS-C one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1839 Posted June 12, 2013 But I agree: if Leica had not used the M word in their teaser, probably 80% of these negative comments would not exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_S Posted June 12, 2013 Share #1840 Posted June 12, 2013 But I agree: if Leica had not used the M word in their teaser, probably 80% of these negative comments would not exist. I agree, it was poor marketing. The camera is not even "mini" ! Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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