wlaidlaw Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2041 Posted June 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The thread is now all about compromises. Pretty much everything in life involves a compromise somewhere along the line, but digital compacts seem to be an area where new technology can't catch up with film. My Minox camera is the size of a cigarette packet, yet it's still 'full frame' and has a high quality lens which means when I want to carry a small camera, I don't have to sacrifice image quality (compared to an M or SLR). I wonder if digital compacts can ever catch up? James, It seems strange how such a small lens on the Minox and Rollei compacts could be f2.8 and still cover a full frame in a tiny body. You would have thought that something similar would appear in digital. It's certainly not the current digital Minoxes. I have just been using the latest pseudo Leica DCC 14.0 and the results were pitiful. The images were considerably worse than those taken by a five year old iPhone. Thank god it broke after a day (LCD backlight failed) and I could in all good conscience, send it back for a refund. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2042 Posted June 16, 2013 Don't want to rain on your parade James but your Minox has a mere 11x8mm film IIRC which means that its DoF is still huge compared to an APS-C camera (23.7x15.6mm). Kind of Digilux 2 with grain sort of. You're confusing Minox spy cameras with Minox 35mm compacts dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nei1 Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2043 Posted June 16, 2013 Don't want to rain on your parade James but your Minox has a mere 11x8mm film IIRC which means that its DoF is still huge compared to an APS-C camera (23.7x15.6mm). Kind of Digilux 2 with grain sort of. This is a full frame 35mm camera not the 'spy'camera you're thinking of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2044 Posted June 16, 2013 Ah yes i remember, something like the Rollei 35 no? I would dream to have a digital version of the latter as well. With a focussing device though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2045 Posted June 16, 2013 It may be possible to make a full frame digital version of the Minox or Olympus small 35mm cameras once digital sensors can accept light from a more extreme angle. The Fuji/Panasonic press release about their new sensor technology alludes to this. However I also think that the current compacts do a better job than those full frame film compacts in many ways. They certainly are much more versatile. I am not sure if there is that big a need to make them much better. And tiny cell phone cameras do a much better job than the Minox sub-miniatures do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2046 Posted June 16, 2013 It may be possible to make a full frame digital version of the Minox or Olympus small 35mm cameras once digital sensors can accept light from a more extreme angle. The Fuji/Panasonic press release about their new sensor technology alludes to this. However I also think that the current compacts do a better job than those full frame film compacts in many ways. They certainly are much more versatile. I am not sure if there is that beig a need to make them much better. And tiny cell phone cameras do a much better job than the Minox sub-miniatures do. Leica's CMOSIS sensor on the M240 already does this as described by Stefan Daniel in Thorsten's Photokina interview last September. Leica was and is ahead of the game as regards using non-telecentric lenses on ILCs. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2047 Posted June 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The thread is now all about compromises. Pretty much everything in life involves a compromise somewhere along the line, but digital compacts seem to be an area where new technology can't catch up with film. My Minox camera is the size of a cigarette packet, yet it's still 'full frame' and has a high quality lens which means when I want to carry a small camera, I don't have to sacrifice image quality (compared to an M or SLR). I wonder if digital compacts can ever catch up? You make a very good point, and it's a great thought, but a long way off if ever. The 35 series MInox's are great cameras and as you said so convenient to carry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2048 Posted June 16, 2013 Leica's CMOSIS sensor on the M240 already does this as described by Stefan Daniel in Thorsten's Photokina interview last September. Leica was and is ahead of the game as regards using non-telecentric lenses on ILCs. dunk I'm thinking of quite a bit more of an angle than that. I don't think the demand for small full frame cameras is universal since smaller sensor cameras are pretty good and inexpensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2049 Posted June 16, 2013 Judging by the prices that Contax T3's and T2's are fetching on EBay at the moment I'm convinced that if somebody bought the rights and produced a real high end miniature 35mm film compact with a 35mm prime lens, out of the finest materials they would sell without any problem . In the same way that there is interest again in vinyl records, and things that are just very well screwed together . Of course digital has a whole host of advantages, but when the frames count, you think more about what you're photographing and how best to expose it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2050 Posted June 16, 2013 You make a very good point, and it's a great thought, but a long way off if ever. The 35 series MInox's are great cameras and as you said so convenient to carry. For years I travelled on business with a Minox 35GT in my shirt pocket. They were a bit plasticy but that resulted in a much lighter weight than the all metal Rollei 35S I used before. I agree with Alan, the results from the 8 x 11 (I have two C's, a chrome and a black) leave a bit to be desired but if you stick to 100 ISO black and white film, they are not too bad. However the cost of getting an 8 x 11 film processed and printed nowadays is prohibitive (around £55 per 36 exposure cassette) Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2051 Posted June 16, 2013 Judging by the prices that Contax T3's and T2's are fetching on EBay at the moment I'm convinced that if somebody bought the rights and produced a real high end miniature 35mm film compact with a 35mm prime lens, out of the finest materials they would sell without any problem . In the same way that there is interest again in vinyl records, and things that are just very well screwed together . Of course digital has a whole host of advantages, but when the frames count, you think more about what you're photographing and how best to expose it. If that was the case then Leica would still be making limited edition Minilux cameras. To start up a production line from scratch for this type of camera would not be an economical proposition. The vinyl record industry and audiophile quality transcription record decks are totally different kettles to cameras. If you want quality film images then buy a Leica rangefinder camera or a Rolleiflex TLR. Leica M film cameras including the CL will produce better images than any Contax compact especially when used with a late Summicron lens. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2052 Posted June 16, 2013 You make a very good point, and it's a great thought, but a long way off if ever. The 35 series MInox's are great cameras and as you said so convenient to carry. If that was the case then Leica would still be making limited edition Minilux cameras. To start up a production line from scratch for this type of camera would not be an economical proposition. The vinyl record industry and audiophile quality transcription record decks are totally different kettles to cameras. If you want quality film images then buy a Leica rangefinder camera or a Rolleiflex TLR. Leica M film cameras including the CL will produce better images than any Contax compact especially when used with a late Summicron lens. dunk I think the market changes, I had a Minilux and sold it, but then just became interested again for whatever reason. It was just that bit big to be "pocketable" unlike the Contax T3 . I think it was the materials that proved to generate the success over the MInox's that with I think one exception were plastic as opposed to metal/titanium. Anyway just a thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nei1 Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2053 Posted June 16, 2013 Isn't there a material that would give a quality feel without the weight?..I mean brass is just ridiculous in this day and age... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2054 Posted June 16, 2013 For years I travelled on business with a Minox 35GT in my shirt pocket. They were a bit plasticy but that resulted in a much lighter weight than the all metal Rollei 35S I used before. I agree with Alan, the results from the 8 x 11 (I have two C's, a chrome and a black) leave a bit to be desired but if you stick to 100 ISO black and white film, they are not too bad. However the cost of getting an 8 x 11 film processed and printed nowadays is prohibitive (around £55 per 36 exposure cassette) Wilson I've got a Minox enlarger for you. I think I sold the tiny developing stuff. I had pretty much everything they made (sub mini) at one time. I still have a C somewhere. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2350869'>More sharing options...
iforum Posted June 16, 2013 Share #2055 Posted June 16, 2013 Now back to reality Alleged metallic Nokia EOS body teased again, this time with a dozen of them Sooner or later Leica will have to enter this line of camera. ps By compromise I mean a neither here nor there camera in regards to the Leica X does not mark the spot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted June 17, 2013 Share #2056 Posted June 17, 2013 I ordered this a few days ago for my Ricoh GXR. APS-C. 24-85mm mechanical zoom. F3.5 to F5.5. Less than $500. the optics are superb. GXR / Digital Cameras | Ricoh Global i cannot imagine spending $3k on an X-Vario....it boggles my mind. How in the world does Leica claim to be unique with this type of offering? Do they think we are that stupid? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter L Posted June 17, 2013 Share #2057 Posted June 17, 2013 I ordered this a few days ago for my Ricoh GXR. APS-C. 24-90mm mechanical zoom. F3.5 to F5.5. Less than $500. the optics are superb. GXR / Digital Cameras | Ricoh Global i cannot imagine spending $3k on an X-Vario....it boggles my mind. We need to know this , why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted June 17, 2013 Share #2058 Posted June 17, 2013 We need to know this , why? To alleviate your fears of not getting your vario x before they run out the cameras:cool: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 17, 2013 Share #2059 Posted June 17, 2013 I ordered this a few days ago for my Ricoh GXR.APS-C. 24-85mm mechanical zoom. F3.5 to F5.5... Interesting indeed. What is the size of this zoom lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhayat Posted June 17, 2013 Share #2060 Posted June 17, 2013 I like my GXR very much. Don't like the colours it produces, though. Have never been a fan of Ricoh colours since the GRD (original model). The B&W images I made with the GXR with my 90mm Summicron in B&W were superb, on the other hand... Ricoh still makes one of the Top 3 out-of-the-camera B&W jpegs, to my eyes.* That's the thing about digital cameras: you're not just buying a light tight box with a lens screwed on; it also includes a lifetime supply of a particular film. *The other two are Leica and Olympus, both of which also have the advantage of having pleasing colour as well as B&W jpegs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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