Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario

[hamey]

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Having followed this thread from the beginning I'd say most of the hype was created right here while Leica folks with a smug look on their faces took a back seat. Bit of a kindergarten really...

 

While Leica Folks with a smug look on their faces took a back seat.

 

Yes I agree, on Leica's behalf it was a bit of kindergarden after all they started it by their DECEPTION.

 

From the Dictionary,= the action of deceiving someone : a range of elaborate deceptions.

 

It's obvious MARKETING is very important to the present regime, calling it the Mini M was only a means

To generating a lot of interest and excitement among the M users.

 

I once said some time ago on this forum, that Leica can sell anything as long as it associatas itself with The Leica M, they must of took some notice of my post.

 

Ken.

[Guest SUMOLUX]

Because of Leica's saying next camera was " mini m" I was disappointed at first with Vario X with its slow lens.

 

I have read reviews from " reid review" and " Jono Slacks review", I understand more of why Leica chose slow zoom lens ))))

 

I was on the fence about X2 as I did not like retracting lens design which is common with so many cameras today. This is the reason I also would not purchase Nikon Coolpix A and Ricoh GR...

 

The interface on the Leica X Vario is very direct and manual focus is very easy ))))

 

I would rarely use 70mm end of lens and 90% of time be at 28mm. Thinking of using external optical 28mm viewfinder with X Vario if I purchase it.

 

Dan

 

After all the hoopla here, I just had a chance to get Vario X in my hands at the airport. Could not of course try it out....

 

It is extremely well made, oozes quality in every way. No plastic feel to the zoom, fantastic menu layout, ergonomic controls...Next to the Sony Nex6L in the same cabinet, it is not even much bigger, and better in my view because the body feels much better in the hand with the lens.

 

Slow zoom? So what? As another poster already brought up (and was conveniently ignored), many shots use f6 or even slower in real life.Some of Leica's best lenses are slow anyway because fewer optical compromises need to be made. Zoom at 2.8 in the cafe? When? Is it a deal killer? No it isn't, certainly when you see the pictures the camera produces at ASA 12,500.

 

This is a great camera for easy quick shooting or new buyers.

 

The only reason I did not take out my credit card at the airport was simply that I am better off with a flavor of Fuji and an M adaptor to use my lenses - which would cost me less thant half the Vario X. That aspect is the true deal-killer for certain buyers.

 

If it wasn't for that, the Vario X, as a 'drop in the backpack' camera would be perfect for me.

[Ruhayat]

I have read reviews from " reid review" and " Jono Slacks review", I understand more of why Leica chose slow zoom lens ))))Dan

 

When you look at the comparisons with competing makers, you can see that the X Vario lens is not that slow, after all, compared to others of similar size. The faster ones (starting with f2.8) are much bigger, longer and heavier.

[iforum]

(and was conveniently ignored), many shots use f6 or even slower in real life

Still running F/6.4 at 70 mm with a need to be at ISO 1600 during the day to get blue skies does not leave much latitude for lower light situations towards dusk

[dwbell]

The irony of a Leica forum arguing that slow zoom lenses are fine is, kinda odd to me.

[lct]

Sure but on compact bridges like this, slow zoom lenses can be fine when associated to a larger sensor and better high isos rendition. Any comparison with primes or bigger zoom lenses is out of topic IMHO.

[pgk]

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100 up - impressive - but late:D.

[tadeyev]

The irony of a Leica forum arguing that slow zoom lenses are fine is, kinda odd to me.

 

Why exactly??

I mean, if you go through the Leica lens books and Erwin's materials, this standpoint is echoed often.

OK, they are different lenses from the Vario X -, but look at the stunning 24mm 3.8 and the 21mm 3.5 ?

Any Nikon/Canon user would consider them real slowpokes.

Some of the faster Leica lenses even score lower in Erwin's comparative analysis.

 

This is especially the case when we take into consideration the ISO level of the non-film cameras...

[onceuponatime]

Why exactly??

I mean, if you go through the Leica lens books and Erwin's materials, this standpoint is echoed often.

OK, they are different lenses from the Vario X -, but look at the stunning 24mm 3.8 and the 21mm 3.5 ?

This is especially the case when we take into consideration the ISO level of the non-film cameras...

 

Still running F/6.4 at 70 mm with a need to be at ISO 1600 during the day to get blue skies does not leave much latitude for lower light situations towards dusk

 

 

I can see myself getting the Xavrio, if it had built in EVF to become the Digilux2 of this decade.

It is f6.4 at 70mm that concerns me,

Without body image stabilisation it will need to be iso3200 to have say 1/45 (non falsh) to keep photos non blurred when low light.

[iforum]

24mm and 21mm lenses are not comparable to the product being discussed.

[onceuponatime]

Updated comparison:

 

APS-C competitors:

 

 

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4.0, filter size 58mm, length 71mm

 

Sony E-Mount 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6, filter size 49mm, length 60mm

 

Leica X Vario-Elmar 18-55mm f/3.5-6.4ASPH filter size 43mm, length 85mm

 

 

 

girth matters more than length in the case of the X Vario due to the body size.

Put in a Fuji 58mm in there and you'll be groping RX1-style bad ergonomics in your fingers.

 

 

Xvario 133mm wide

XE1 129mm wide

 

Photographers with large hands have found FujiXF 18-55 f2.8-4 filter 58mm just fine.

 

Leica Digilux2 135mm wide : filter 69mm

Almost every single Digilux2 owner has found the handling just fine.

 

 

Thus an image stablised Mini M with 18-50mm constant f2.8 with 72mm filter max legth 85mm (15mm more than XVario length) as the Sigma would have been just fine.

[jonoslack]

Updated comparison:

 

APS-C competitors:

 

Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 constant, filter size 67mm, length 92mm

 

Sigma 17-50mm EX DC OS HSM f/2.8 constant, filter size 77mm, length 91.4mm

 

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4.0, filter size 58mm, length 71mm

 

Sony E-Mount 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6, filter size 49mm, length 60mm

 

Leica X Vario-Elmar 18-55mm f/3.5-6.4ASPH filter size 43mm, length 85mm

 

Easier to make more sense of things now, innit. As mentioned earlier, girth matters more than length in the case of the X Vario due to the body size. Put in a Fuji 58mm in there and you'll be groping RX1-style bad ergonomics in your fingers.

 

Hey Hey the Vario lens is NOT 85MM long - it's 60MM long - I measured it - at it's longest extension it's 70mm long (compared to 110 with the Fuji).

 

I don't know where the 85 came from, but it's wrong - It might be good if you edited it in your post!

 

all the best

[iforum]

Without body image stabilisation it will need to be iso3200 to have say 1/45 (non falsh) to keep photos non blurred when low light.

and the horse has bolted:p

[dave.gt]

As I mentioned before, the Vario lens is shorter than my vintage Elmar 90cm 4.0 lens...With that lens on a small X body, sure, I can see the similarity to an M...but silly, unfortunate maketing IMO. Schoolkid hysteria on the forums, though.

 

Maybe sanity will return soon?

[dkCambridgeshire]

I can see myself getting the Xavrio, if it had built in EVF to become the Digilux2 of this decade.

It is f6.4 at 70mm that concerns me,

Without body image stabilisation it will need to be iso3200 to have say 1/45 (non falsh) to keep photos non blurred when low light.

 

The X Vario does offer the same image stabilisation as the X1 and X2 up to ISO 1600 and for shutter speeds between 1/4sec and 1/30sec:

 

"The Leica X Vario provides a function that

normally results in sharp pictures even with very slow shutter speeds:

Select Image Stabilization in the menu, and the desired setting in the

submenu

Notes:

• With this function, the camera automatically takes two pictures in

succession (the shutter noise can be heard twice). It then com–

bines the pictures into one by digital processing.

• Hold the camera steady until after the shutter is released the

second time.

• As the function uses two exposures, it can only be used for static

subjects.

• Image stabilization is only possible with shutter speeds in the range

from 1/4s to 1/30s and sensitivities up to ISO 1600."

 

dunk

[iforum]

One can hold the camera as still as they like but if the subject is moving one forty fifth just will not cut it and most people tend to move unless you are dead then it is another ball game

[dave.gt]

I look forward to the day that all the measurebating about the XVario is over. This has become way beyond boring and irritating.

[dave.gt]

If everyone on LUF would grow up and decide if they want to buy it or not, these endless boring threads and temper-tantrums would stop.

 

Like I tell my grandsons, ages 6 and 8:

 

Like the XVario? Buy it.

 

Hate the XVario? Buy something else.

 

Just shut up!

 

If you don't like what I just said, get a sense of humor... and your camera of choice.

[sfage]

I began to wonder the same thing when the first Leicaflex was launched. Don't ask me if i know the answer.

 

Are you suggesting this machine will have the longevity of an SL2?

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[sfage]

I think the points are:

 

People are here because they like the cameras and lenses. People are also here because they believe in this company and would like to see them succeed.

 

I am one of those people.

 

The reason I am here is: I have become tired of the "expensive camera look". I want a TOOL I can use, that I can print at the size I require to -sell- prints. I would also like it to be smaller than my gripped 5d2. I would also like a machine that will respond to the several genres of work that I do (macro, landscape, industrial, decay).

 

I am waiting for them to sell me something that I would like to buy.

 

Will my 5d2 print at the size I need? Yes. Am I satisfied with the image quality to the point where I can manipulate the composition to finally call it a completed work? Yes. Am I satisfied with the bulk, size and weight of my 5d2? No. Does Leica make something with a viewfinder at a price point between the X2 and the Ms? No. Would I pay a premium to have Leica make me something that fits my criteria needs? Yes, but not triple or quadruple the price.

 

In other words, I am not going from 2,000 dollars to 6,000 dollars to end up at the same place. At that point, one must consider their motivation for their purchase, and moreover, why they do photography at all.

 

Now, if the M-E would have mounted the R (and 2 M) lenses I have, I really, really would have considered it. Is it triple the price of the 5d2? Yes. Would it allow me to make prints at the size that would enable me to sell them? Yes. Is it a really nice size of machine that stays out of my way when I am trying to work? Yes.

 

"R-series Lenses Fit M Body via R-adapter"

 

But, going from 2,000 to 6,000 dollars (with the adapter, shipping, et cetera)... the curve is a little high, with no noticeable "uptick" of production in my work flow.

 

But they don't make one. They haven't. It doesn't appear as though they will in the future, either.

 

This is why people are disappointed. Well, on top of... not being able to deliver the frigging Ms they have taken deposits upon... that they can't deliver.

 

This is why people are annoyed.