pico Posted February 22, 2013 Share #1 Posted February 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Name reasons Leicas are so expensive... And I don't want to read a deluge of "because it is better, hand-made, and what the market can tolerate" and so-forth. I hope to find underlying reasons, perhaps some that us over-the-Atlantic cannot fathom. What about the German liability law? Does that influence price? For all, or only Germans? The general economy of Germany? Portugal? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 22, 2013 Posted February 22, 2013 Hi pico, Take a look here Name reasons Leicas are so expensive. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
VABikePacker Posted February 22, 2013 Share #2 Posted February 22, 2013 Being a 48 hour owner of my first leica and on the same side of the pond as you my opinion of leica is like buying an Armani suit - you'll pay for it today but it will stand the test of time and last longer than 10, say, men's warehouse suits. Solely my opinion - you get what you pay for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted February 22, 2013 Share #3 Posted February 22, 2013 I think maybe it should be asked as 'why Leica is more expensive than X' as opposed to 'why is Leica so expensive.' By that I mean why is a BMW more expensive than an Acura, etc., and in fact is it truly a 'better' car in the end? (taking into account all things including reliability and long term ownership costs.) So why are other products (i.e., Japanese made) less expensive? Economy of scale(?) Production costs(?) Labor costs(?) Efficiency of production, etc.(?) And what is Leica's actual profitability per unit by comparison? I believe Porsche once asked Toyota to help implement efficiency when they were going broke building cars by hand. Assembly is now much more automated and modern but the prices are still expensive (and Porsche is now highly profitable.) Arguably the build quality has still remained high however. Anyway, I'm clearly no economist But I'm sure somebody will answer your question more appropriately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted February 22, 2013 Share #4 Posted February 22, 2013 Material, design, engineering, workmanship, simplicity, usefulness, pedigree, references, ability to hold value over time, are some at the top of my head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted February 22, 2013 Share #5 Posted February 22, 2013 more than anything else.....they are expensive because they are produced in lesser numbers. lesser numbers = smaller parts orders = higher prices. secondarily, the build methods, materials, etc... if Leica made as many M9s as Canon made 5Ds every year----they would probably sell for $3k new.....but they don't, and they won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf Posted February 22, 2013 Share #6 Posted February 22, 2013 Very simple, they have to employ a way above average number of staff to take care of all the equipment sent back to Solms for repairs,adjustments ,proper alignments etc. Just as a recent example, whereas my first M9P has been working fine now for more than 18 months and about 10.000 shots, the new one I got two weeks ago as a second body lastet exactly 7 days and 447 shots, till it completely quit any function whatsoever. My new 21mm Summilux needed service right away as the patented hood did not adjust properly in the right position. Did I get excited? I did'nt ...still don't understand why not. I still prefer the handling and rendering of the Leica over my Nikon gear, which never let me down once in decades, even in the most adverse conditions. Crazy that is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 22, 2013 Share #7 Posted February 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Some (but not all) of the reasons; Leica are a relatively small company who make a niche product, they're based in Germany (and Portugal) and their cost base (staff, premises, sundries) will be high. Volume of sales v that cost base Quality of materials used Cost of those materials Much hand assembly/testing - man(woman) hours involved in manufacturing Pretty obvious stuff when you think about it. The management like to wear expensive black T shirts at company events, and I bet Seal doesn't come cheap! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 22, 2013 Share #8 Posted February 22, 2013 They are not so expensive. Compare other high-end bodies and Zeiss lenses made in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 22, 2013 Share #9 Posted February 22, 2013 They are not so expensive. Compare other high-end bodies and Zeiss lenses made in Germany. Well I would say they are expensive by any measure, £5000 of anyones money is 'expensive' but when compared to other high end equipment they start to look less expensive. And when you consider the price that some s/h equipment sells for, compared to the cost new, certain models/lenses start to look like bargains or even (cough) investments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 22, 2013 Share #10 Posted February 22, 2013 Higher paid staff. More hand work. Higher development cost. Reputation. Longer warranty. Transferable warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 22, 2013 Share #11 Posted February 22, 2013 I hope to find underlying reasons, perhaps some that us over-the-Atlantic cannot fathom. 1. Manufacturing cost -probably high due to European wages for highly skilled workers in a small and specialist industry, in turn linked to a high standard of living, etc, etc. Also due to the economies of scale (lack thereof) I assume. And 2. Profit margin. (Not so difficult really is it:D?) FWIW many European optics manufacturers turned to more lucrative areas of optical specialisation to maintain high profits, which was our loss because they produced good equipment many years ago and presumably still do - although not for the consumer market. Others went bust. Leica is in a unique situation which is, I suspect, at least partially maintained by its reputation and prices. I'm sure that consumer law here in Europe is a part of the equation as is conforming to CE and other standards, but these are common to many industries and I doubt that they are a huge cost factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 22, 2013 Share #12 Posted February 22, 2013 Name reasons Leicas are so expensive... And I don't want to read a deluge of "because it is better, hand-made, and what the market can tolerate" and so-forth. I hope to find underlying reasons, perhaps some that us over-the-Atlantic cannot fathom. What about the German liability law? Does that influence price? For all, or only Germans? The general economy of Germany? Portugal? Thanks in advance. Expensive? Surely a matter of perception. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABikePacker Posted February 22, 2013 Share #13 Posted February 22, 2013 Expensive is relative. Its not a definitive idea for all. To some $5 is expensive while $50,000 is pocket change to others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted February 22, 2013 Share #14 Posted February 22, 2013 Expensive? Surely a matter of perception. Expensive is relative. Its not a definitive idea for all. To some $5 is expensive while $50,000 is pocket change to others. I also agree with these views. Falstaff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 22, 2013 Share #15 Posted February 22, 2013 When talking about photographic equipment, I don't think anyone would disagree that a Leica is expensive, as per the defiinition of the word, or in comparison to some other brands of cameras/lenses. For the vast majority of people, the price of a Leica camera or lens would be considered an expensive purchase. Even for the many millionaires on the forum, whilst £50K for a modest camera outfit may be loose change, I'm sure you'd still agree that amount of loose change for a camera is 'expensive'. That's not to say it isn't good value, or better value than brand X, or the only option available. Let's have a bit of reality please! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted February 22, 2013 Share #16 Posted February 22, 2013 If I can get 30 years of use from my new MP, it will cost me £109 per year, which I consider a bargain! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 22, 2013 Share #17 Posted February 22, 2013 If I can get 30 years of use from my new MP, it will cost me £109 per year, which I consider a bargain! Well considering there are plenty of M3's still in regular use (not to mention the Barnack cameras), 30yrs of use for an MP is just 'running it in' ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 22, 2013 Share #18 Posted February 22, 2013 When talking about photographic equipment, I don't think anyone would disagree that a Leica is expensive, as per the defiinition of the word, or in comparison to some other brands of cameras/lenses. For the vast majority of people, the price of a Leica camera or lens would be considered an expensive purchase. Even for the many millionaires on the forum, whilst £50K for a modest camera outfit may be loose change, I'm sure you'd still agree that amount of loose change for a camera is 'expensive'. That's not to say it isn't good value, or better value than brand X, or the only option available. Let's have a bit of reality please! Sure - but even a large amount of money is not synonymous with expensive. It must be considered in relationship to the product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 22, 2013 Share #19 Posted February 22, 2013 As Leica have a been a bit 'wobbly' financially in the not too distant past it is clear that the profit margin is not huge once development costs are factored in. Basically it's not made of high volume plastic, alloy and electronic components assembled by robots and very low wage labour by a huge multinational with enormous financial and marketing resources........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 22, 2013 Share #20 Posted February 22, 2013 Name reasons Leicas are so expensive......perhaps some that us over-the-Atlantic cannot fathom. Actually, if you think about it, few digital cameras are built in the USA either. Without a reputation like Leica's, to do so at a 'viable' retail price might simply not be possible, since I assume that the US would have the similar cost problems associated with highly skilled workers, R&D costs, small business, and so on..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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