wattsy Posted November 28, 2012 Share #421  Posted November 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is too easy in the heat of the moment to forget to change the lens recognition setting and when you come round a corner with an uncoded long lens on the camera, set as such in manual, you find a wonderful panorama facing you. You then put on a wide angle lens, forget to reset the lens recognition and get results which need lots of PP, because the camera did not do any.  I haven't been an SLR user for many years, and this may explain my lack of enthusiasm for the SLR capabilities of the M 240, but in this discussion of adaptors, codes, etc. is there are certain amount of failing to see the wood for the trees? Isn't it just easier to use a tool better designed for the job of working with longer (and zoom) lenses – e.g. one of the new Nikon or Canon DSLRs? Even assuming that you can overcome all the coding/adapting malarky to your satisfaction you are still faced with the horrendous prospect of composing and focussing your shot via live view and some kind of clip-on LCD viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2012 Posted November 28, 2012 Hi wattsy, Take a look here Preparing for the M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
robsteve Posted November 28, 2012 Share #422 Â Posted November 28, 2012 FF is more demanding than crop cams like DMR and coding cannot replace missing data anyway. Interesting to see what the new sensor will do with critical corners like this (Elmarit-R 28/2.8 # 11204 on 5D1). Â I don't know if that is the product code for the most recent 28mm Elmarit-R, but even with the latest, you need to live view focus the edge of the frame and let DOF cover the middle. It was this way on film too, but we didn't notice. I adapted one for my D800E and after seeing this, read Erwin Puts' report on it and he describes the soft corners even on film. I also have the 21-35mm and it is much better in the corners and would be a good lens on the M 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2012 Share #423 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Wilson, as I understand it, the coding will only activate the manual R lens choice menu so you will have to enter the lens manually anyway. Â Jaap, Â I am guessing it would work in the same way as manual lens selection on the M9, where it remembers the last lens you selected. The manual selection I use quite a bit is the 21/2.8 Elmarit when I am using my 28 mm coded Summicron ASPH wide open. The vignetting correction of the 21/2.8 is much nearer correct than the 28 correction at anything less than f5.6. If I switch to manual, as long as this was the last manual selection I used, it will stay that way until altered. Â As I am not currently envisaging having any other R lenses than the 80-200, I am hoping that I will only have to select it once from the R lens menu then thereafter, as soon as the camera sees the 110111 code, the 80-200 will be selected. Â Fingers crossed! Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2012 Share #424  Posted November 28, 2012 I haven't been an SLR user for many years, and this may explain my lack of enthusiasm for the SLR capabilities of the M 240, but in this discussion of adaptors, codes, etc. is there are certain amount of failing to see the wood for the trees? Isn't it just easier to use a tool better designed for the job of working with longer (and zoom) lenses – e.g. one of the new Nikon or Canon DSLRs? Even assuming that you can overcome all the coding/adapting malarky to your satisfaction you are still faced with the horrendous prospect of composing and focussing your shot via live view and some kind of clip-on LCD viewfinder.  Ian,  1) I only want to carry one big camera and one set of lenses, when travelling.  2) If my small back up camera can use the same lenses, so much the better. Now that I have an Olympus EP-2 replacing my Ricoh GX200, that is the case. It even uses the same EVF.  3) I was initially very sceptical about the abilities of the EVF. However, having been using it for a couple of weeks now on the EP-2, where on manual lenses the focusing system is pretty much the same as the M-240 will be but without the benefit of focus peaking, I am far more sanguine. You can really focus extremely accurately with the zoom feature and once your fingers learn the routine, it is very easy.  4) 100% of my professional photography is travel (airline magazine articles - don't snigger in the back there - they defray a lot of my travel costs), so with advancing years, cutting down on weight/clobber really counts.  I totally accept that it is horses for courses and you are totally correct that for a lot of things, in an ideal world a DSLR would be better, just like for some things a digital medium or large format camera would be better. However, for me, the M-240 is getting near to a perfect solution to my needs.  Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2012 Share #425  Posted November 28, 2012 I haven't been an SLR user for many years, and this may explain my lack of enthusiasm for the SLR capabilities of the M 240, but in this discussion of adaptors, codes, etc. is there are certain amount of failing to see the wood for the trees? Isn't it just easier to use a tool better designed for the job of working with longer (and zoom) lenses – e.g. one of the new Nikon or Canon DSLRs? Even assuming that you can overcome all the coding/adapting malarky to your satisfaction you are still faced with the horrendous prospect of composing and focussing your shot via live view and some kind of clip-on LCD viewfinder.  All is correct in your reasoning Ian : but there is people, like me, who :  1) Has NEVER been an SLR user 2) Own longer (Leica Viso) lenses (and, by chance I have a Leica 28/70 too... )  And for us the expectation on the practical usage of the EVF is high : first impressions are mostly on the "good" , and I'm waiting to hear and see much more when deliveries will begin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 28, 2012 Share #426  Posted November 28, 2012 I haven't been an SLR user for many years, and this may explain my lack of enthusiasm for the SLR capabilities of the M 240, but in this discussion of adaptors, codes, etc. is there are certain amount of failing to see the wood for the trees? Isn't it just easier to use a tool better designed for the job of working with longer (and zoom) lenses – e.g. one of the new Nikon or Canon DSLRs? Even assuming that you can overcome all the coding/adapting malarky to your satisfaction you are still faced with the horrendous prospect of composing and focussing your shot via live view and some kind of clip-on LCD viewfinder. Which is exactly why I am looking at either a 5Dii with the AA filter removed or even a Pentax K5ii-s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 28, 2012 Share #427  Posted November 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson ......  I see the logic .... and the simplicity..... plus it's a permanent fix  I will do the same with my 80-200/4 ......... as soon as I know it works !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2012 Share #428 Â Posted November 28, 2012 One other nice thing about live view and EVF, is that I will be able to dust off my Cokin creative filter kit. Magazine editors seem to love corny things like six pointed star for contre-jour shots and use of tobacco variable density filters etc. You can have all sorts of fun with multiple shots using different coloured graduated filters at different angles and then stitching in PS. I know it is cringe making but most of the picture editors seem to have been trained in the 1980's in the advertising industry and have not moved on. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 28, 2012 Share #429 Â Posted November 28, 2012 I don't know if that is the product code for the most recent 28mm Elmarit-R, but even with the latest, you need to live view focus the edge of the frame and let DOF cover the middle. It was this way on film too, but we didn't notice. I adapted one for my D800E and after seeing this, read Erwin Puts' report on it and he describes the soft corners even on film... Yes i noticed this on the latest pre-ROM version as well (11259), reason why i don't share the general praise for this lens amongst others, but the first version (11204) is even worse on my 5D1 so i wonder if the M 240 will do better than the latter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 28, 2012 Share #430 Â Posted November 28, 2012 I totally accept that it is horses for courses and you are totally correct that for a lot of things, in an ideal world a DSLR would be better, just like for some things a digital medium or large format camera would be better. However, for me, the M-240 is getting near to a perfect solution to my needs. Â I suppose my lack of interest in the M 240 live view capability stems from my lack of interest in long lenses in general (the longest lens I've ever owned was a Canon 70-200 zoom which I almost never used). I find the traditional M finder ideal for the lens range that I have wanted to use (28-90mm) and I haven't owned an SLR since the M8 allowed me to use my M lenses digitally. It's probably for this reason that the new M 240 is the first new M body that has not piqued my interest. Â Yes, I can see the attraction of avoiding carrying more than one system (the additional weight and the associated different set of batteries and charger, etc.) but using an EVF just seems to me to be a sacrifice too far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted November 28, 2012 Share #431  Posted November 28, 2012 One other nice thing about live view and EVF, is that I will be able to dust off my Cokin creative filter kit. Magazine editors seem to love corny things like six pointed star for contre-jour shots and use of tobacco variable density filters etc. You can have all sorts of fun with multiple shots using different coloured graduated filters at different angles and then stitching in PS. I know it is cringe making but most of the picture editors seem to have been trained in the 1980's in the advertising industry and have not moved on.  Wilson  Wilson:  Even though I seem to be giving you a hard time about the adapters, you are the perfect candidate for the new M with R lenses. Unlike a DSLR user, you are looking for quality not quantity, so the slower working method of using your filters and possibly a tripod, would probably not be any quicker with a DSLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted November 28, 2012 Share #432 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Yes i noticed this on the latest pre-ROM version as well (11259), reason why i don't share the general praise for this lens amongst others, but the first version (11204) is even worse on my 5D1 so i wonder if the M 240 will do better than the latter. Â I think it is the lens has a bit of field curvature and a digital sensor is flatter than film. I have my 28mm Elmarit-r converted to Nikon F and decided to use the 21-35mm instead. I made some sample shots with the 28mm using the focus on the edge of the frame method and the files look much better. Full rez f5.6 and f8 shots from the D800E are posted at the link below. This lens is currently listed on the auction site that this forum links to via Leica-deals and still pretty cheap. I guess there is no market for them in F mount. Â https://skydrive.live.com/embed?cid=136C4377DBE10C06&resid=136C4377DBE10C06!107&authkey=AA1vN3wD0kgBXs0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2012 Share #433 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Which is exactly why I am looking at either a 5Dii with the AA filter removed or even a Pentax K5ii-s. Â HEY !!! Are you serious ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 28, 2012 Share #434 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Â Yes, I can see the attraction of avoiding carrying more than one system (the additional weight and the associated different set of batteries and charger, etc.) but using an EVF just seems to me to be a sacrifice too far. Â Have you spent much time using an EVF? I agree it's not an aesthetic delight, but the combination of seeing accurate exposure, focus and white balance, together with the effect of exposure compensation and 100% accurate framing can be addictive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 28, 2012 Share #435 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Which is exactly why I am looking at either a 5Dii with the AA filter removed or even a Pentax K5ii-s. Â Before you even try it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 28, 2012 Share #436 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Which is exactly why I am looking at either a 5Dii with the AA filter removed or even a Pentax K5ii-s. Â What happened to your statement only a couple of months ago that, with the MM, you finally have all the cameras you need for the next decade, except perhaps an EVIL? Â My dessert bet gets easier every day...you said I would starve...although even I thought you might at least hold out a year. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 28, 2012 Share #437 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Have you spent much time using an EVF? Â No, I haven't. Nor do I think I will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2012 Share #438 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Have you spent much time using an EVF?I agree it's not an aesthetic delight, but the combination of seeing accurate exposure, focus and white balance, together with the effect of exposure compensation and 100% accurate framing can be addictive. Â I agree.... should I have to make some prevision, I'd say that when I'll have (one day... ) a M240 with EVF, probably my usage will be (roughly estimated - but based on my historical albums of enlarged prints) : Â a) 80+ % 15 to 135mm - this will remain a field for RF/VF 12-18% > 135mm - this will be the EVF field c) 3-8% Macro - this will be a field for LCD, in case EVF, in case the old Viso... to be tested and verified in practice. Â Already a sufficient reason to consider with much interest the EVF... and if it will prove really good, can be that also in a) it can have a role... thinking of situations like ultrawideangles with critical framing or wideopen lenses >=50mm when, maybe, the accuracy of focusing of EVF can be a plus versus the quickness and clarity of RF/VF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted November 28, 2012 Share #439 Â Posted November 28, 2012 I've a mixture of rom and non-rom lenses and to be honest, I've never noticed a difference in image quality other than the differences between the lenses. Except for distortion and vignetting on wide angles, I would suggest that the corrections, if any, are of little practical importance.Only few long lenses are supported in the list provided for the M, for the rest the coding is irrelevant anyway. Â I realized this morning that since my 400mm f2.8 had the Leitax mount on it currently, I could just take the R mount from the 400mm and tape the ROM over to see if there are any corrections. Shooting my screen again there didn't seem to be any difference with or without ROM on the 400mm. Â I just realized I also have the 28mm ROM to test and there is colour and vignette corrections done with ROM on the DMR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share #440 Â Posted November 28, 2012 Have you spent much time using an EVF?I agree it's not an aesthetic delight, but the combination of seeing accurate exposure, focus and white balance, together with the effect of exposure compensation and 100% accurate framing can be addictive. Â I played with the EVF on a Leica X2 in Leica Mayfair - it's completely usable, and with focus peaking should be better than good. I particularly appreciated the way it compensates for low light and provides a very well illuminated scene. Manual focus on the X2 gives you a magnified window in the screen to work with - this is good. It will be infinitely better on the M-240. My only complaint now is having to wait Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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