thighslapper Posted September 25, 2012 Share #341 Â Posted September 25, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I find it remarkable that they would use these as what is essentially an 'advertisement' Â A particularly uninspiring selection .... and although many would recognise that a dull overcast day is hardly a showcase for a cameras quality I would have thought Leica could do better than this...... Â ........ smacks of last minute desperation ...... even the sea is flowing steeply downhill to the left Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Hi thighslapper, Take a look here Leica M and M-E. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bybrett Posted September 25, 2012 Share #342  Posted September 25, 2012 I find it remarkable that they would use these as what is essentially an 'advertisement'  A particularly uninspiring selection .... and although many would recognise that a dull overcast day is hardly a showcase for a cameras quality I would have thought Leica could do better than this......  ........ smacks of last minute desperation ...... even the sea is flowing steeply downhill to the left  The prints at Photokina were soft as well as flat, they looked a bit like an unsharpened file from a CMOS sensor... most of the shots are at f11 / f16 and not bitingly sharp either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borbarad Posted September 25, 2012 Share #343  Posted September 25, 2012 Well, We’ve played quite bit with the new M at Photokina (had our M9P and M8 as well a Leica 1 from 1928 with us) – to long probably. And we used basically:  The new M in Black and Chrome, the 100m and 21-35mm R Lenses with adapter, the Olympus Viewfinder, the GPS Grip and Flash bracket and the Leica SF58 Flash and the 50mm Lux, 50mm APO Summicron , the Noctilux and 21mm SE.  The Liveview implementation is good and dos not disturb the Rangefinder Feeling. This is part of the good news. The software is still buggy. There is quite a bit work left to do and the new Menu is a bit more complicated and not so elegant and straight forward as the old one. Video is not really on the pro-marked side and more of a gimmick.  Really awesome is the new baseplate with flash connector and GPS as well as the new Flashbracket. This should have been made for the M9!!!!  The LED Rangefinder frame lines are good as well, but the frame selector is gone and there is no software option for this!
The focus peaking feature is ok, but not really accurate compared to the rangefinder, esp. on fine corners. The magnification tool is currently way better. The R solution is nice and simple and actually handles very well. This will made some old customers very happy!  But the M does not feel right and personal I don’t like it.  The design is off, esp. the red dot as it is bigger now and somehow out of position. Just doesn’t look right. But more importantly now the new M feels like a brick, it’s just to thick. The rangefinder cover nor the plate nor the extra weight is an issue. It’s the middle part. On the M8/9 the was enough space above the scroll well for the thumb and you could hold it nicely between your fingers. It feels nice & slick, more like a old M. Now it’s like if you place your thumb on the scroll wheel of the M8/9 and your remaining ones at the front….. About 2-3mm thicker.  So, it is not a bad camera and when everything attached felt more of an very well build DSLR and it will definitely sell in shiploads – but if you have the M9P and possible a old film one you will – after touched, felt and handled the new M – stick with what you’ve got. The new M just doesn’t feels right. My personal bet is that in future the M9-P in Chrome or Black will be regarded as a Leica M Classic!  And if you are in need of Liveview and HD Video and Lens adaptations then my suggestion would be: Get the OM-D (As I have one in my bag for AF, LiveView and HD Video and its a superb little EVIL).  Anyway. The New S is very nice!. The small new Joystick is very useful and handles very well. Apart from that the exterior is the same, but it feels more responsive then the S2. The new lenses are great! From what I could see on the Display the 120mm and 24mm are great new additions and the new TS lens is very well build and quite impressive. The new 30-90mm Zoom is actually quite heavy, but sizewise about the same as a 14-24 F2.8 Nikkor. However, the ISO1600 A4 Testshot provided was stunning for MF System. I haven’t seen a MF 1600 shot with less noise and even the M9 at 1600 would be noisier!  But the camera which I liked most was the M Monochrom. I haven’t yet looked at the Test-shot made on my Mac but from what I saw on the Display the gradiation was just stunning, esp. with different lights in the background. They had also photos from Jono Slack on Display to show the difference in detail (which actually were not that easily noticeable). But really jaw dropping where those Monochrom Prints in in the Gallery, esp. the two big ones (about 1.2×1.8m or even bigger) – the Chinese Girl and the Chinese Village seen in the Monochrom Brochure. That would be the M I would spend my money on if i would. But I’m very happy with m M9-P in Crome!  B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted September 26, 2012 Share #344 Â Posted September 26, 2012 AFAIK: Â the ME is shown as the same weight as the M9/M9-P at 585grms but is minus USB and manual frameline selector lever & associated gubbins. has something else inside been changed, perhaps..? (pls. don't say it's the grey paint..!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 26, 2012 Share #345 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Just copied the specs. Did you find a typo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted September 26, 2012 Share #346  Posted September 26, 2012 Well.. But the M does not feel right and personal I don’t like it.  The design is off, esp. the red dot as it is bigger now and somehow out of position. Just doesn’t look right.B  it's the Walter De'Silva attributed modification of a classic. gorgeous..!! the extra space was probably deemed too empty without an enlarged, bloodied dot painting a more 'sporty' look to an understated design. plus the handling has been enhanced very subtley further. without any offence intended for your greatly appreciated (& envied..!!) hands-on review, it's slightly ironic that you are upset about this. thinking slightly outside the box, many members here in LUF discuss passionately about their new porche or the latest auto as they do the technical & aesthetic aspects of their camera. it's all in here and because product designers will actively & voraciously seek to take their cues from somewhere, straddled within a tight deadline of design to approval to production, i'm sure that's one of the reasons Leica brilliantly invited Walter..! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 26, 2012 Share #347 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just copied the specs. Did you find a typo? Â Uhm... thanks for the quick spec tab... I hadn't yet focalized that the M is 5mm thickier... + 13% ... this is NOT a negligible difference... I'll be curios to test a handling... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted September 26, 2012 Share #348 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Somewhere it is stated that the camera body is in fact not 5mm thicker but the extra 5mm is added only by the thumb rest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted September 26, 2012 Share #349 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Frequent misunderstanding caused by the specs: the M-body overall is not thicker than the M8/9! The additional 5mm are only due to the "thumb's rest". The top-plate has about 1mm more for better integration of the display which itself is said to be flatter. Besides the thumb's rest you really don't feel any difference if you hold the cam in your hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 26, 2012 Share #350 Â Posted September 26, 2012 I think it's amazing what tonality and colour are in those photos considering the light is so horrendously flat. I think that's the point. Â They look like poorly done HDR to me. Â I think people are just seeing what they want to see - if we'd been told these were from the new Olympus E-PL5 everyone here would be saying they look flat and disappointing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted September 26, 2012 Share #351 Â Posted September 26, 2012 The prints at Photokina were soft as well as flat, they looked a bit like an unsharpened file from a CMOS sensor... most of the shots are at f11 / f16 and not bitingly sharp either. Â Not abandoning ship are you Brett!! I can only presume that they would never release a camera with a lesser sensor than the M9 surely that would be its death knell even with the other technological advances Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 26, 2012 Share #352  Posted September 26, 2012 The additional 5mm are only due to the "thumb's rest".  Considering the side-image from Leica's site, I don't understand how this 'extra 5mm' only refers to the thumb rest? The part protrudes no further than the LCD screen at the back? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/188095-leica-m-and-m-e/?do=findComment&comment=2125246'>More sharing options...
almoore Posted September 26, 2012 Share #353 Â Posted September 26, 2012 I think it's amazing what tonality and colour are in those photos considering the light is so horrendously flat. I think that's the point. Â The tonality and colour in the Gaumy photographs are far from amazing, unless you're suggesting they're amazingly awful. The quality would be disappointing if these were snaps from the latest iPhone. Having said that, every camera manufacturer - Leica, Canon, Fuji - seems to have a habit of of producing test photos that lag far short of the technical potential of their cameras. We won't know the strengths and weaknesses of this camera until it's tweaked for final rease and in the hands of paying customers; reviewers, as early M8 buyers know all too well, can't be relied on to give an accurate verdict. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 26, 2012 Share #354  Posted September 26, 2012 Not abandoning ship are you Brett!! I can only presume that they would never release a camera with a lesser sensor than the M9 surely that would be its death knell even with the other technological advances  Don't forget that these were shot with a very early firmware Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 26, 2012 Share #355 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Just did a quick layers comp of screenshots of the M9 and M, roughly resizing to match the size of the lens mount on both images (the only common factor). Â The M body looks considerably fatter by about 3 or 4mm I'd say. But the screen protrudes less from the fatter body, and the updated control dial (not the thumb wheel) is much more flush to the back. Still, the body looks positively obese next to an MP for instance, and definitely fatter than an M9. Very unscientific test though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 26, 2012 Share #356  Posted September 26, 2012 Considering the side-image from Leica's site, I don't understand how this 'extra 5mm' only refers to the thumb rest? The part protrudes no further than the LCD screen at the back? Hardly obvious here either. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/188095-leica-m-and-m-e/?do=findComment&comment=2125279'>More sharing options...
lct Posted September 26, 2012 Share #357 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Larger pic here: http://diglloyd.com/articles/LeicaM/LeicaM240/LeicaM240-silver-top,std.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 26, 2012 Share #358 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Nice little touch to add a salt cellar too, handy when snacking on chips whilst out street shooting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 26, 2012 Share #359 Â Posted September 26, 2012 Hardly obvious here either. Â Indeed - this time using the top view images from the Leica site, and making a layer comp in Photoshop with the M and M9 cameras overlaid and resized to match the lens mount, it's extremely obvious that the new body curves round to envelop the items that were previously sticking out at the back of the camera: the screen, the rangefinder eyepiece, the control dial, are all now embedded into the fatter body. Â This is significant because how one holds the body is unaffected by the way the LCD screen and other items protrude from the back. The important thing is how fat the actual body is, itself - where your hand actually grasps the camera and holds it, sometimes for extended periods. Â Beats me how these internet myths just get perpetuated, in spite of actual real measurements specified by Leica. The camera is really obviously fatter, for goodness sake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted September 26, 2012 Share #360 Â Posted September 26, 2012 The prints at Photokina were soft as well as flat, they looked a bit like an unsharpened file from a CMOS sensor... most of the shots are at f11 / f16 and not bitingly sharp either. Â At f/11 f/16 diffraction will play a large role giving less sharp images... Â We will have to wait for the actual finished product and not evaluate to much on preproduction cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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