buying photo critique

[Ellie]

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One of the members here has done some great photo critique too: Critique-a-shot

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[earleygallery]

I find them - not just this one - very non-critical (either in a positive or a negative critical sense). Too many 'great capture' type comments. People who criticise tend to be told that it's only their opinion - the subtext being that it's really a great photograph, but the person criticising it is a muppet.

 

Please don't think I'm advocating rudeness, you can have negative views about a photograph without attacking the photography or using emotionally charged language. If you don't like something, and decide to say so, I think you should at least say why you don't like it rather than post a blanket "it's a pile of crap".

 

Steve, I agree. Most times, if anyone posts anything more critical than 'great capture' the OP takes offence, usually great offence! I stopped posting/commenting on the photo forums for some time, but sometimes I feel compelled to offer my opinions! Interestingly I notice that where one person offers a more detailed opinion, others tend to follow.

 

We tried 'open and honest' feedback if you remember, but that too descended into one upmanship, point scoring, my lens is better than your lens, don't you know who I am type responses and general slanging matches.

 

Which is why I wonder about the worth of paying someone to critique your work. How would the OP feel if he paid $800 and was told his work was basically rubbish? Would he be happy? Even worse though would be to be told positive things, that aren't entirely true. As I said, I'm sure people offering such services want repeat business (and the key word here is business!).

 

I do feel that this forum can be a great resource for feedback, if one genuinely wants to hear what people feel. But I'm not sure they do.

[jaapv]

I find them - not just this one - very non-critical (either in a positive or a negative critical sense). Too many 'great capture' type comments. People who criticise tend to be told that it's only their opinion - the subtext being that it's really a great photograph, but the person criticising it is a muppet.

 

Please don't think I'm advocating rudeness, you can have negative views about a photograph without attacking the photography or using emotionally charged language. If you don't like something, and decide to say so, I think you should at least say why you don't like it rather than post a blanket "it's a pile of crap".

I try that from time to time and generally find it works. However I start off with the things I do like about the image.

[Guest Ming Rider]

Stump4545.

 

If you do post pic's here, don't say that you accept what is said, as the flood gates will open.

[wda]

any suggestions for anyone/website/service that you can submit your photos or body of work and pay for an in depth critique of the photos and style of photography?...thank you kindly.

Style is very subjective, so you need to approach someone whose work is exemplary in your eyes. General critique I assume covers technical prowess. That is more easily addressed in a well chosen workshop or part-time college course. Orientation criticism calls for your personal research, because only you know the style you wish to perfect.

 

I believe you should sign up to a few short workshops and develop your skills progressively through that route.

[Peter H]

There is virtually always something worthwhile in every photo, even photos that you really don't like.

 

Good criticism of the kind we're talking about should be inspiring and fuel the appetite to get out and take more photos, improving your skills and exciting you as you progress. There is never a need for it to be a negative experience.

 

If it does feel negative its because its poor criticism.

[azzo]

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...

 

... The only payment I want is to enjoy your pain and anguish.

 

 

LoL ... .... So sorry, I just couldn't help it. ...

[azzo]

Check the photo clubs in your area.

 

 

Agree.

You might be surprised. Some are genuine clubs from which you can learn a great deal.

[smb]

Do you really need feedback? What is the purpose of your photography? Are you planning an exhibit? If you like your own photos isn't that good enough? On the other hand if someone is paying you then you need to photograph what they like to see.

[azzo]

...

 

... If you like your own photos isn't that good enough?

 

Not necessarily!

[Paul J]

On the other hand if someone is paying you then you need to photograph what they like to see.

 

Uh, no. They pay you because they like what they see in your work. You don't just shoot what ever people want you to.

[jaques]

personally I find the idea of paying a critic creepy and bizarre... You shouldn't have to pay for it...

 

Enter your images into competitions, look for outlets to exhibit your work, upload it to Alamy and post it here. Let the masses decide... But don't pay for it...

 

You know if you pay for it: it can't be real don't you?

[earleygallery]

I was only joking when I said I'd offer a critique at £20 an image.

 

My terms are as follows - I even offer my first critique free to all!!

 

Your photograph shows much promise. I like the composition, although it breaks some of the rules, but we can look at composition later on and I would recommend you enrol for my ‘Composition – rules and when to break them’ module.

The exposure could be better, although you have made a very good image there is some lack of detail in the shadows/highlights. You may like to enrol for my ‘Exposure technique’ learning modules, but more of that later.

I can see you are developing your own personal style and I would really like to see more examples of your work – I’m sure we can both work to really make your style quite unique. I think it would help you to share another 10 images with me over the next few months.

To help you to become a true Master Photographer (and you’re clearly almost there!) I would suggest;

Critique – 10 images @ £100 a pop

Composition Modules – 10 projects/images @ £100 a pop

Exposure – learning projects x 10 @ £100 a pop

Total to become a Master Photographer = ONLY £3,000

Please send cheque to……

[pico]

personally I find the idea of paying a critic creepy and bizarre... You shouldn't have to pay for it...

 

Why not? Eight pounds for ten minutes.

[CalArts 99]

If you like your own photos isn't that good enough?

 

We don't live in a vacuum. We share our images, our writings, our opinions, our work, with fellow human beings. Critique is an integral part of someone's education (and we're constantly learning until death) no matter what the discipline. An author needs to know if what they are trying to convey is apparent. Too often we can understand what we are doing in our own heads, but that may not translate to a viewing audience. Is the point of our images actually being understood the way we want them to be read and understood?

 

Artists constantly critique each others work. It's an important part of their art production. And in the context of an exhibit, it's not about whether "liking your own photos is good enough" since there is always someone (the curator or gallery owner) making the decision to exhibit your work in the first place.

 

Unless you make images for yourself and stuff them into a dark closet after you're done, then critique is essential to your growth as an image maker (and also as a person no matter what you do in life.)

[250swb]

Post on the photo forum and just ask that people say exactly what they think about your photograph. If nothing else it may get people thinking,..... yeah, OK it was a long shot.

 

But the sort of photo critique you seem to want/need requires people with the vocabulary to deliver it. As such I'm afraid to say the nearst thing could be a 'camera club', and entering 'camera club' competitions is a sure way to get your ego trampled but some feedback is nearly always given, even if limited to convention. But it may be a good experience long term. Of course the other thing you can do is look at other photographers, and perhaps more rewarding. Embark on collecting a photo library. Start with the icons in whatever field you prefer, look at the photographs, read what the photographer says about them, and learn by osmosis. Learn to know why those photographs make a statement when others don't. If you need a reading or collecting list on a particular subject you could ask that specific question and I'm sure you would get more ideas than you have so far. And when you begin to see how and why other photographers approach their work, you can cherry pick the best bits to put into your own work. There is nothing wrong with emulation, it is how all artists develop.

 

Steve

[Clive Murray-White]

The traditional art school "crit" involves more than what is being suggested here, a student is required to talk to their work, hence all that really weird art-speak! That process is infinitely more useful than the kind of "cold" crits that you see on photo forums.

 

The standard of forum criticism would increase rapidly if the person posting a picture tried to explain what they though was good, interesting, technically appropriate, thought provoking, expressive, and historically or philosophically relevant. The point is that we can argue about every one of these elements and quite rightly what was once good can be terrible now - and visa versa.

[MarkP]

The traditional art school "crit" involves more than what is being suggested here, a student is required to talk to their work, hence all that really weird art-speak! That process is infinitely more useful than the kind of "cold" crits that you see on photo forums.

 

The standard of forum criticism would increase rapidly if the person posting a picture tried to explain what they though was good, interesting, technically appropriate, thought provoking, expressive, and historically or philosophically relevant. The point is that we can argue about every one of these elements and quite rightly what was once good can be terrible now - and visa versa.

 

Hi Murray,

 

as you're a professional artist who would be used to your work being critiqued/reviewed by professionals and amateurs alike, could you please expand on this process and how you 'adjust' to such critiques. Also what processes do you use when assessing other peoples work.

 

Regards,

Mark

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[Clive Murray-White]

Hi Murray,

 

as you're a professional artist who would be used to your work being critiqued/reviewed by professionals and amateurs alike, could you please expand on this process and how you 'adjust' to such critiques. Also what processes do you use when assessing other peoples work.

 

Regards,

Mark

 

Mark - I think I feared a response like your's almost as soon as I posted it! and now I've been pinged I'll try not to write a book/essay length reply.

 

Re: other people critiques of my work, I take the unusual stance of believing that I am responsible for any reading anyone may have of my work and have my studio open to the public - I actually think this helps me a great deal because by the the time any work of mine goes on public display I have a very clear idea of every possible reaction to it.

 

In terms of the professional critics, you just have to take your chances, that said you should have a very good idea of where they are coming from in a taste/theory/history sense - it is unlikely that you'll convert them to your way of thinking so its best to simply accept that so-and-so just isn't on your side!

 

In assessing other people's work I try to understand what they are trying to do, you could say - locate the genre that they both a part of and are commenting on.

 

In any art they are 4 main components that are involved:

 

Those issues to do with the artist's personality, both emotional and attitudinal.

 

In 2D arts the whole set of formal picture making issues, such as composition, form, colour, space etc.

 

The use of appropriate techniques

 

All aspects to do with history/theory/philosophy. This is because every image is a comment on all other previous images - whether the maker cares or not.

 

Of course these categories are all equal and each artist's work is likely to be comprised of them in quite different percentages.

 

There is of course a quick way to put all these issues into one fool proof basket - rather than shy away from Beauty as we've been taught to over the past 50 years or so, you actually try to create your own idea of your personal notion of beauty - that does not mean cute gift shop chocolate box etc. It takes some courage, it makes you very critical of your own work and if you actually achieve it, other people will almost automatically understand it.

 

Enough for now - Clive

[CalArts 99]

Hi Murray,

 

as you're a professional artist who would be used to your work being critiqued/reviewed by professionals and amateurs alike, could you please expand on this process and how you 'adjust' to such critiques. Also what processes do you use when assessing other peoples work.

 

Regards,

Mark

 

I agree with Clive that it's difficult to discuss in any substance without writing a short novel.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own personal experience comes from here: Frieze Magazine | Archive | What Lies Beneath

 

As a product of Asher's 8-hour long (and often longer!) Post Studio crit class while a graduate student, the crit was center to my process of production. A crit can go in all directions but the key is to simply talk about the work and anything ancillary that may arise from it. Anything goes. Which is what looking at art does: it makes you think beyond the surface of the image. And where that takes you is usually all over the place. It sometimes may not seem focused but the point is that it allows ideas to evolve and to blossom and to examine all sorts of issues surrounding image making, including the whole notion of 'creativity' itself. As the linked article above says, "The description and interpretation is exhaustive, with the process considered more important than the specific results."

 

Here's an audio description of that infamous Post Studio crit: Christopher Williams on Post Studio and Michael Asher by Fiona Connor on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

 

And it's not all theoretical or 'artspeak' (actually there is usually little artspeak except from some nervous students trying to impress.) Once it's been hashed out (sometimes over a few days) and clarified as to the author's intent, then the focus often moves on to issues of style and technique and how that can be improved upon in order to 'fine-tune' the work and help improve its message.

 

These days I start out my own crit classes by asking my students what they are literally seeing in an image: a simple verbal description of the content of the image. It's a basic question yet not so simple. Once the image has been described as to what is contained on the surface, and we can all agree on it, then we go one to discussing what the meaning of the image might be to each individual and then dive into semiotics. Even a 'simple' photograph of some banal object can be discussed not just in the sense of traditional composition and technique (why the image is 'appealing' or not), but to the degree of why are you even taking the photograph in the first place, i.e., what's the point of making this particular image.

 

I feel that what the OP desires is perhaps more about traditional composition and technique which can readily be discussed in respect to what society accepts as 'good' (while understanding that cultures differ and societies shift over time; what is not accepted today may well be accepted tomorrow, etc..) But inevitably any discussion will no doubt go on beyond that and begin to address the meaning of the image and how it works (or doesn't work) to convey its intended message. And that's a good thing. Sometimes the message others are getting from viewing the image might not even have been the author's original intent. And that's what a good crit can reveal.