Olimatt Posted June 13, 2012 Share #1 Posted June 13, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello forumers, I am back... after a few rolls... I tried Adox CMS 25 and CHS 100. I also got some Tmax400 which I will develop soon. On all the adox films that I developed (I am an absolute beginner) and scanned, I got not so well exposed pictures (have to be adapted heavily in SilverFast) and A LOT OF white dots everywhere. Whats wrong? Moreover, I am seriously disappointed by my m6+zeiss zm50/2 which does not see to be that sharp (sometimes yes, sometimes not really, although I focus quite correctly). So my question to you: what are these white dots ? I thought it has to do something with my stopbath which is too acid, but I stopped using acid stop bath... I even developed everything with distilled water... did not improve anything... One example here (where the dots are still quite small and the focusing worked... I am ashamed...)... Is there anybody in the region of Heidelberg/Mannheim who could confirm that my brand new zeiss is focusing correctly (on a digital M) ? Best Regards, Olivier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Fgcm Posted June 13, 2012 Share #2 Posted June 13, 2012 Ok friend, let's try to go step by step. You are making to many thinks together. Buy some cromogenic bw to be processed with C41. These films are very good and, being processed in a minilab, results are very consistent. This helps a lot to gain self confidence. Next step is to develop a film like Ilford FP4. Very easy to develop in Ilford DD-X. This film is very clean (no white spots) Adox films (which I love) are more difficult to develop and to scan. This will be a next step. Franco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mca Posted June 13, 2012 Share #3 Posted June 13, 2012 Hello forumers, I am back... after a few rolls... I tried Adox CMS 25 and CHS 100. I also got some Tmax400 which I will develop soon. On all the adox films that I developed (I am an absolute beginner) and scanned, I got not so well exposed pictures (have to be adapted heavily in SilverFast) and A LOT OF white dots everywhere. Whats wrong? Moreover, I am seriously disappointed by my m6+zeiss zm50/2 which does not see to be that sharp (sometimes yes, sometimes not really, although I focus quite correctly). So my question to you: what are these white dots ? I thought it has to do something with my stopbath which is too acid, but I stopped using acid stop bath... I even developed everything with distilled water... did not improve anything... One example here (where the dots are still quite small and the focusing worked... I am ashamed...)... Is there anybody in the region of Heidelberg/Mannheim who could confirm that my brand new zeiss is focusing correctly (on a digital M) ? Best Regards, Olivier I am not an expert on film and scanning, I have only done a few rolls so far. But when I read your post about the white dots I thought to my self "welcome to film" I have had the same experience with black and white traditional films, I guess it's just the way it is, I don't know if it's dust in the scanning process or what it is but I believe it's normal (hopefully someone else can confirm this). In any event, I have found that if you use C41 films, either color or the mono chromogenic C41 films like the Ilford XP2 400 etc then the scanner will be able to use it's ICE technology and with that it eliminates all the spots and scratches and everything, giving you very clean results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted June 13, 2012 Share #4 Posted June 13, 2012 .... On all the adox films that I developed (I am an absolute beginner) and scanned, I got ... A LOT OF white dots everywhere. Looks like dust spots to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 13, 2012 Share #5 Posted June 13, 2012 No, it's NOT normal. It's 'user error' somewhere along the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted June 14, 2012 Share #6 Posted June 14, 2012 I have never had this happen with my Tri-X which I have always processed myself. My guess is that something is going wrong in the scanning process. Take a hard look at your negatives; if you see no evidence there, the problem has to be happening during scanning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alw Posted June 14, 2012 Share #7 Posted June 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I suspect scanning/ dust. Which scanner are you using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 14, 2012 Share #8 Posted June 14, 2012 Adox films are notorious for needing extreme care in their development. They need a pre-wash to remove the heavy anti-halation coating, temperature is critical, never go over 20c, and you should never use a stop bath, use water as a rinse before fixing instead. Not only that, but they are known to have coating flaws, and white dots in the print, meaning dust like particles on the negative, is one of the possible faults when you get a bad batch of film. They are 'hand made' films, and I suppose that is one of the risks. So it is either the film, you got a bad batch, or your technique. So you need to go back to basic's and try to eliminate all possible errors. You say you got the white spots on both types of Adox film, so that would point to your technique, perhaps a dusty room where you dry the film? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olimatt Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted June 14, 2012 I suspect scanning/ dust. Which scanner are you using? I am using am a PlusTek OpticFilm 7600i. Adox films are notorious for needing extreme care in their development. They need a pre-wash to remove the heavy anti-halation coating, temperature is critical, never go over 20c, and you should never use a stop bath, use water as a rinse before fixing instead. Not only that, but they are known to have coating flaws, and white dots in the print, meaning dust like particles on the negative, is one of the possible faults when you get a bad batch of film. They are 'hand made' films, and I suppose that is one of the risks. So it is either the film, you got a bad batch, or your technique. So you need to go back to basic's and try to eliminate all possible errors. You say you got the white spots on both types of Adox film, so that would point to your technique, perhaps a dusty room where you dry the film? Steve I made that mistake: I used an acid stop bath with the Adox CMS 20 and noticed something went wrong (like scratches or bigger white dots). Then I tried developing the Adox CHS 100 without a stopbath and just rinced with distilled water (I got even more white dots!). The room I am using is still my little bathroom and the negatives look "dust-free". Some infos on my last development: Tank development of adox chs 100@6mn and 20°C in Rodinal 1+25.. then 1,5 mn rincing with distilled water then 4 minutes fixing with the Adox fixer 1+4 then rincing again (4mn with filtered water and then distilled water - is expensive-). On the weekend I will try to develop a Tmax400 with X-Tol and will let you know about my results. I hope to get much better results... :/ Best Regards, Olivier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 14, 2012 Share #10 Posted June 14, 2012 Looking on this iPhone, your scans don't look ThAT bad, but you do need to be careful about dust. They are easy to sort on photoshop though. If your scanner can use IR to deal with dust and scratches, you MUST turn it off when scanning traditional B&W film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 14, 2012 Share #11 Posted June 14, 2012 White spots on scans are usually dust on the developed negative. Black spots on scans is due to dust/dirt on the film at time of exposure. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangur Ban Posted June 14, 2012 Share #12 Posted June 14, 2012 The example you've provided doesn't seem too bad to me for white dots - they are dust on the neg from the scanning process. It's a burden of the film scanning process but attention to the process pays off - I make sure the scanner glass is clean before each scan and have a rocket blower to remove dust that settles on the negs whilst being placed in the scanner. As to the issues with exposure and focussing, I'd recommend some tests. Use the exposure meter in the camera, bracketing exposures. Check against another source, such as an exposure meter (a digital camera should give you useful comparisons here). Photograph a subject at a known distance and set this on the lens, as well as focussing using the rangefinder. See the effect of different apertures. Keep a record of your settings (a post-it note in frame helps later on). It may be the rangefinder in the camera is misaligned and that the exposure meter is not reading accurately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted June 14, 2012 Share #13 Posted June 14, 2012 Looks like dust spots to me. using an old wetting agent and diluted it too thick for the last bath, it might be that small particles + dust sits on the coated surface which isn't so slick as the film back. When the film stripe is hanging in a vertical position, all water must run down and the 'soup' is becoming thicker and thicker. In order to eliminate this water flow from the leader black frames to the bottom with frame No. 37, just hang the filmstripe more diagonal in a dustfree space as shower cabinets are. This allows the water to run over the edge and sprocket holes down and not on the coated area to the bottom. Just an idea..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted June 15, 2012 Share #14 Posted June 15, 2012 I use Adox. I develop at 24 celsius, I use stop bath, I hung the film normally. No problem at all. I gently clean the film (after it's dry) with a common antistatic cloth before scanning. Do not forget that it's film base is PET. Franco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 15, 2012 Share #15 Posted June 15, 2012 I use Adox. I develop at 24 celsius, I use stop bath, Exactly the things Adox warn about in all their literature, high temperature and stop bath. A bit like loading the cylinder with two bullets for your game of Russian Roulette. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 15, 2012 Share #16 Posted June 15, 2012 This suggests stop bath is OK. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 15, 2012 Share #17 Posted June 15, 2012 Make sure the negs are clean before scanning. I simply run the neg strip between two fingers. Sounds crude, perhaps, but it really does clean off most. Actually, in terms of post-processing speck etc removal, I have much more problems with scratches and fluid residue on the negs than with dust (I don't develop myself). I see you use Silverfast. I use Vuescan. I find that for most usage scanning at its "Print" setting, which results in a 1333ppi approx 1800x1200px image, is enough. Plus it is significantly faster - esp. for b/w - than the higher settings. If you scan bigger then of course everything, grain, dust, scratches, will look bigger on screen. In terms of focus, yes your image is somewhat off. I don't think it is the lens but rather your focus. Practice makes perfect. Here's a quick edit of your image to punch it up. I find post-processing is usually required for b/w and negative colour. Less so for slides. Philip Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/181727-whats-wrong/?do=findComment&comment=2041073'>More sharing options...
Maarten Posted June 15, 2012 Share #18 Posted June 15, 2012 The results Olivier gets are the same I am getting. Both with Adox CHS 50 and CHS 100. I tried Rodinal and D-76 with and without acid stop bath. Dried in a damp bathroom and in my standard place. Always white dust spots on the Plustec scan. The spots are also visible with a magnifier glass in the emulsion. I also developed Tri-X and FP4. Dried in my standard place. These negatives show a couple of spots after scanning. Takes you two minutes in Photoshop to remove. The Adox CHS films have a PET carrier that attracts dust as a result of static charge build-up. I am very frustrated because I like the performance of the film and the "fifties" experience. Because of the time you need to spend in spot removal, I have decided to concentrate on films on acetate basis like FP4-plus that scans like a charm when developed for 11 minutes in D-76 1:1 at 20 degrC. Maarten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 16, 2012 Share #19 Posted June 16, 2012 This suggests stop bath is OK. Pete But the specific film information says the opposite from the generic 'how to do it' information - ADOX CHS 50 - Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted June 16, 2012 Share #20 Posted June 16, 2012 HI Steve, now read this for CMS 20. http://www.adox.de/CMS20_ADOTECHII_instructions.pdf For cms One must use stop bath Interesting, isn't it? Franco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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