FrozenInTime Posted February 5, 2012 Share #101 Posted February 5, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) M10? No, I would not expect this one; demand for M9 still is so high, they would be silly to do that. I suspect demand has now peaked ; there are now many shops with open stock of M9s and M9Ps. As time goes on, more and more people are going to hold off purchases waiting for better electronics,LCD and higher ISO performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Hi FrozenInTime, Take a look here M10 at Photokina [Merged] . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
georg Posted February 6, 2012 Share #102 Posted February 6, 2012 The basic design and engineering for the M9-successor is most likely aready set - but here are my "two cents" regarding it's features: 1. machined metal body - please no compromises here with a mixture of mg-die-cast and plastic, also for buttons and other controls, it has to stand out against midclass cameras. 2. compact and sealed body, similar to the M9, maybe slightly changed proportions (less wide but with ergonomic handgrip) 3. new large mount with small flange distance for AF-lenses and adapters for M&R-mount 4. highest-quality, large OLED-display on back with glass (Gorilla, Xensation...) cover 5. highest-quality OLED-viewfinder (see microled.net) with Leica-made viewfinder-optics 6. larger than APS-C-sensor is a must. 24MP-APS-C-sensors will become standard rather quickly at low prices (currently 1300$) - it has to stand out for highest IQ and lowest crop factor with the M&R-lenses. 20x30mm at least, still possible without stitching and therefore available from many vendors 7. high MP-count to minimize aliasing and allow oversampling (e.g. binning to enhance sensitivity in a high-iso-mode) 8. no low-quality Chinese standard electronics anymore, please. Cheapish Li-Ion batteries with 300 cycles life-span don't belong in a 3k$+-Leica - see for suppliers involved in the automotive-industry nearby (3000 cycle cells with ceramic separators already made in Saxony). 9. internal high-quality memory with mirroring for maximum-safety. No silly games with external cards with varying qualiy anymore. 128GB-NAND-flash is cheap now, even from high-quality sources and would allow fast, safe (RAID1) 64GB internal memory 10. WLAN and and USB 3.0 connectivity, also for charging batteries. 11. if video will be implemented, use ProRes-codec Is this unrealistic? When it will be just an "X2" with consumer-electronics I will rather buy a NEX-7 without red dot and invest my money in lenses - not another "me too"-camera, please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted February 6, 2012 Share #103 Posted February 6, 2012 The first is what Leica has always had, but the electronic viewfinders, in my experience, are just bad. Low resolution, and when they compensate for bright light the finder gets too dark and disturbs transition from eyeview to the camera's finder - and colors dull. Maybe I use a lousy product. Dunno. What EVF for what camera do you use? I have tried the Hoodman lens. The picture is excellent, but these elastic bands aren't very good. If a camera has a video output connector, one can connect a monitor. Does there exist EVFs, that work with the video output? Of course the EVF would need a battery. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted February 7, 2012 Share #104 Posted February 7, 2012 Georg, you are not discussing the putative M10 – you are talking about the coming EVF camera, and these are two entirely different projects. My guess is that the M10 will be much like the M9, but with upgraded, modern electronics – and possibly a CMOS sensor and limited live view capacity. It will take M lenses only. The EVF camera (I like to think of it as the 'MR') is a much more speculative matter. It may well have a die-cast magnesium body, like the M9 – it is NOT machined – and it will not have a hybrid finder, Fuji's patent ninjas will see to that, and it will probably have an 'extended' M mount that will accept both current M lenses to be used with some kind of focusing aid, R-lenses ditto via an adapter, and 'native' AF lenses, probably first a short tele zoom and a 35mm equivalent prime lens. But I say 'probably'. The Gnomes of Solms may yet surprise us in either direction. Hey Mr. Kauffmann, if I'm right you can buy my crystal ball for the price of a MR ... I have a cupboard full of Olympus OM lenses, including some very advanced macro gear. And I have a Novoflex OM to M adapter. The old man of Endor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 7, 2012 Share #105 Posted February 7, 2012 what would be the cost of this EVIL camera? x1 range? or a new price bracket for Leica: maybe 4500-5000 USD? And is it certain they couldn't have a hybrid finder of some sort? Patents will protect the way Fuji implemented it- but won't stop a novel take on the broad concept. It will be an interesting balancing act- new tech on one side- and many new features (at lower cost?)- classic RF on the other (at a premium?): surely the M10 price will rise (over M9) as the M lenses have risen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 7, 2012 Share #106 Posted February 7, 2012 I'd guess £2000-2500, $3000-3750. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 7, 2012 Share #107 Posted February 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't get it why are so many obsessed with an M10? What do they expect to get that they aren't getting fro the M9? As soon as Leica brings out an M10 some clown will say they are waiting for the M11 to . well i'm not obsessed... But, as many other, have a M8,love it, have not bought a M9... Time go on... M10 could be my next, nothing strange imho. And same can happen to M9 users when M10 will enter.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted February 9, 2012 Share #108 Posted February 9, 2012 I suspect demand has now peaked ; there are now many shops with open stock of M9s and M9Ps. I think this is the way it should be. I hate walking into a Leica store in an expensive mall only to receive brochures from sales people and with nothing on display. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramosa Posted February 9, 2012 Share #109 Posted February 9, 2012 well i'm not obsessed... But, as many other, have a M8,love it, have not bought a M9... Time go on... M10 could be my next, nothing strange imho. And same can happen to M9 users when M10 will enter.. My view and situation exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted February 10, 2012 Share #110 Posted February 10, 2012 M10 will be the perfect digital rangefinder camera. Read M-1-0. However, perfection can never be attained. So I think we will have more iterations of M9 until such a day when Leica can make that final move to perfection. In the meantime we will have a new S in the form of a S3 to counter the best from Nikon and Canon, and a new X in the form of a X2 that will bring mirrorless to a new market segment with cheaper lenses (read Summarit), possibly zoom lenses and maybe even video. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
okram Posted February 10, 2012 Share #111 Posted February 10, 2012 IMHO, Leica is making M10 as the first camera in years where the company is very well financially. M8 was full of compromises, M9 is just fill frame M8 and now that they are well financed, experienced on they own mistakes, they will make the first digital M with no compromises. Kudos for the efforts till now (My M8 works fine for me), but my guess is that they will nail it big time since they have no more limitations. This is why is passed on M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastgreenlander Posted February 10, 2012 Share #112 Posted February 10, 2012 I hope Leica will choose to make two kinds of M's. One "traditional" and minimalists, CCD, high resolution one and a more progresive with CMOS high ISO preformance and video, live view. That way Leica can shut both camps up and give options to the end user to utilize those wonderful lenses to its full creative potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted February 10, 2012 Share #113 Posted February 10, 2012 I hope Leica will choose to make two kinds of M's. One "traditional" and minimalists, CCD, high resolution one and a more progresive with CMOS high ISO preformance and video, live view. That way Leica can shut both camps up and give options to the end user to utilize those wonderful lenses to its full creative potential. I am not sure Leica would go down the right path with an M competing with a Canon or Nikon DSLR I no longer use them as they are too heavy and just can't cut the IQ when you take Leica lenses into account. Most people I meet with Ms love everything about it. The only thing they want is perhaps some more ISO capability and detail A projected frame line would be nice. Live view, focus assist and video would be nice and wouldn't change the nature if implemented subtly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastgreenlander Posted February 10, 2012 Share #114 Posted February 10, 2012 I am not sure Leica would go down the right path with an M competing with a Canon or Nikon DSLR I don't see it as competing against Canon or Nikon just because you ad video or high ISO performance. I see it as introducing new creative possibilities. As I wrote, one tradition digital M and a progressive M. If you love everything about the M9, this would be the traditional M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 10, 2012 Share #115 Posted February 10, 2012 Love can blind everyone for sure but traditionalists can hardly be happy with a $8K camera louder, slower and noisier than an entry DSLR. What they (at least i) expect from the M10 is that it can reach the level of film Ms whilst retaining some modern features like clean rendition at high isos IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 10, 2012 Share #116 Posted February 10, 2012 My guess is that the M10 will be much like the M9, but with upgraded, modern electronics – and possibly a CMOS sensor and limited live view capacity. It will take M lenses only. A gentleman's bet - I think it would be exceedingly difficult to make a full-frame shutter suitable to CMOS use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted February 11, 2012 Share #117 Posted February 11, 2012 For the past 12 years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
australex Posted February 13, 2012 Share #118 Posted February 13, 2012 Anyone that thinks an M9 is even close to perfect either collects cameras for the sake of it of uses it as a toy. Cameras are tools used to create images, and Leica's were originally workhorses. I will always have my M3, and if the M10 addresses some of the issues I had with the M9 I'll buy one. Leica owners as a whole seem to have this misplaced notion that because we spent so much money, our cameras are in a class of their own. Things that are terrible about the M9 - Sensor aliasing issues - No live view, no focus assist. Makes critical focussing difficult at high apertures. - Inaccurate framelines - Camera response inferior to my $400 Canon S95 - An LCD inferior to my $400 Canon S95 - Bad dynamic range, horrible high ISO compared to a $500 DSLR - We do not need the baseplate anymore. - It is so loud Things that are great -Lenses -Form factor -Color from the CCD I will happily pay Leica's crazy prices if they make an M10 will these issues addressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 13, 2012 Share #119 Posted February 13, 2012 Slowest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 13, 2012 Share #120 Posted February 13, 2012 Welcome to the forum - but I fear you don't "get it' I would advise you to buy one of the excellent fully gimmickized products that are offered by many manufacturers. Anyone that thinks an M9 is even close to perfect either collects cameras for the sake of it of uses it as a toy. Cameras are tools used to create images, and Leica's were originally workhorses. I will always have my M3, and if the M10 addresses some of the issues I had with the M9 I'll buy one. Leica owners as a whole seem to have this misplaced notion that because we spent so much money, our cameras are in a class of their own. Things that are terrible about the M9 - Sensor aliasing issues - No live view, no focus assist. Makes critical focussing difficult at high apertures. - Inaccurate framelines - Camera response inferior to my $400 Canon S95 - An LCD inferior to my $400 Canon S95 - Bad dynamic range, horrible high ISO compared to a $500 DSLR - We do not need the baseplate anymore. - It is so loud Things that are great -Lenses -Form factor -Color from the CCD I will happily pay Leica's crazy prices if they make an M10 will these issues addressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.