NZDavid Posted January 12, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 12, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not "digital"....all controls require digits to set them, after all... But which do you prefer and why? I prefer analog controls. Shutter dial with shutter speeds. Aperture ring with f/stops. Focus settings with distance scale. Zoom control with focal length. ISO dial with ISO speeds. I also wouldn't mind seeing a white balance dial. Not too many controls, though. Just the essentials. I don't see a need for an exposure compensation dial, for example. For me, analog controls are far easier to use than menus. First, they are one-touch controls. Quick and simple. Look at the setting and move the dial. A menu-based system is at least a four-step process: Press menu button, squint at LCD, select using cursor or dial, press set. There are even more steps if you have to wade through menu options. Menus are confusing. There are often so many options and choices available, finding what you really need quickly is a pain. Yes, some menus -- like Leica's -- are better than others. A Q setting helps, but is really adding complexity. Seems to me computer programmers have very little idea about good design; they just like adding clever new stuff! They shouldn't have a big say in interface design. I am not too keen on touchscreen controls either. There is no tactile feel, or "haptics" happening. With any menu-based system, looking at an LCD in bright light is difficult. The LCD is useful for viewing the image in good light, checking some settings, but that's mostly it -- for me anyway. Some menu is OK, but minimal, not dozens of pages. Old-fashioned, retro, anachronistic? I don't think so. I think old-school knobs, dials, and switches are just better design. Another advantage is you see at a glance how one setting relates to the one before and after it in a sequence. It's significant how manufacturers are returning to analog controls, with an ever-increasing range of new models.(Some more analog than others.) Why? Not just fashion: I think Leica and Oskar Barnack got the basic design right, all those years ago. The challenge now is to preserve the inherent simplicity of that design. You may disagree. Would you prefer cameras to have more or fewer analog controls? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Hi NZDavid, Take a look here Analog vs menu-based controls. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted January 12, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 12, 2012 Aanalog by far. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170428-analog-vs-menu-based-controls/?do=findComment&comment=1896463'>More sharing options...
sandro Posted January 13, 2012 Share #3 Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting and good question! My luxurious position is that I only have analog camera's (assorted Leica M) with which I feel at ease. The basic elements and nothing more. It's loving film more than any rational choice (plus the lack of money) that until now prevented me from getting a digital M. So yes I simply like the analog switches and knobs. Lex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted January 13, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 13, 2012 I always loved the Rd-1's analog dials... brilliant- a true instant classic camera. Looks like stuff from a airplane cockpit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmitch6 Posted January 13, 2012 Share #5 Posted January 13, 2012 Analog for me too...there's something about the tactile feedback of analog controls that, while I can't quite put into words, is essential to the photographic process for me. Just yesterday I was chatting with my salesman at the camera store and we were talking about the same thing. While I can work with whiz-bang, auto-focus, digital everything, I just don't find myself connected to the process of making a photograph with it as I do a good analog control set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted January 13, 2012 Share #6 Posted January 13, 2012 Interesting argument but lets not be sentimental here, cameras (including lens) with 2 to 3 parameters requiring adjustment can accommodate 2-3 analogue dials. Things get more complicated with digital cameras that require to accommodate "digital" parameters and body runs out of space to fit all the dials - I would imagine typical shooter on LUF wants to be able to set up camera and take picture not to fabricate it afterwards in Photoshop. -Film camera without meter - aperture & shutter speed [e.g. M3] -Film camera with meter - aperture, shutter speed & ISO [e.g. M6] Digital camera - fundamental controls -Aperture - thanks havens manual focus lens still proudly sport aperture rings. -Shutter speed - preferably analogue -Other controls like ISO and White Balance even M9 access these via menu just no room to squeeze extra dials. It is a fine balance between providing functioning digital camera and keeping minimalist appearance, regardless you like it or not menu controls are inevitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted January 13, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...-Other controls like ISO and White Balance even M9 access these via menu just no room to squeeze extra dials. It is a fine balance between providing functioning digital camera and keeping minimalist appearance, regardless you like it or not menu controls are inevitable. Good way of looking at it, and up to a point, yes. But you could still have an ISO dial. Several cameras do, like the Canon G seres compacts. Perhaps in the left of the top-plate where the rewind crank is on film Leicas. It could also incorporate a WB dial. But yes, a fine balance and challenge. Perhaps designers should look at how many features are really needed, rather than trying to pack in more and more software and USPs (Unique Selling Points). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 16, 2012 Share #8 Posted January 16, 2012 I certainly prefer analogue dials. I think the m9 is close to perfect in this regard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 16, 2012 Without meaning to contradict you i believe the M9 is the worst M ever made in this regard. Hard to believe that chimping may be mandatory to check battery charge, frame count of change iso with a $7K or 8K Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 16, 2012 Share #10 Posted January 16, 2012 I like analog CONTROLS. The Contax RX was my favorite SLR - dials and lever for every function, with electrical numerical readouts reserved only for information (battery, exposure count). Of course, it had to be BIG to handle all those knobs.... http://photo-help.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Contax-RX-film-35mm-slr-camera.png Car analogy - how would you like driving a car with controls like a modern SLR? One big control wheel, and buttons that change what the wheel controls. Hold a button and the wheel steers, hold another button and the wheel controls acceleration, hold another and the wheel controls braking, hold another, and the wheel tunes the radio. I prefer separate brake, clutch, and accelerator pedals, a gear-shift lever, a steering wheel that does nothing else, and a radio with little buttons of its own. I suspect my insurance company feels the same way. I prefer "digital" INFORMATION readouts - a simple "27" exposures remaining is more useful to me than the Epson's analog/needle "somewhere between 50 and 20." I will say after 28 months that I've had more "battery low" incidents or lockups with the M9 than I did with M8s. Partly because the battery level indicator is hidden, but also because the long scale is misleading and non-linear. With the simple 3-level M8 readout, I swapped batteries as soon as it dropped to one "-". With the M9, it is always tempting to try and squeeze out more shots - "Geez - I've still got 1.5 cms of red bar available." Modern airliners use both digital-numerical and "scalar" readouts for information displays: http://www.b737.org.uk/images/pfd.jpg It has to be noted, however, that discrete knobs/dials for every control do have two drawbacks: a) they are more expensive to build if there are a lot of things to control they introduce additional holes/gaps in the body or lens, which make for poorer weather-resistance (or require more weatherproofing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 16, 2012 Share #11 Posted January 16, 2012 Try driving a Renault Megane - it is halfway there. After a month I still could find only half the functions it allegedly offers - to use the navigation (which I never figured out anyway:() you have to switch on the radio.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted January 16, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 16, 2012 What do children - the next generation of camera users - say to this? Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted January 16, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 16, 2012 Deadly silence....... Wassat a camera? Who needs one if you have an iPhone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 16, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 16, 2012 Without meaning to contradict you i believe the M9 is the worst M ever made in this regard. Hard to believe that chimping may be mandatory to check battery charge, frame count of change iso with a $7K or 8K Leica. What is so difficult in hitting one info button? Those are really secondary controls, which do not need analog interfaces. Dials would need to be lit, unlike that unpractical little window on the M8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 16, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 16, 2012 Hard to believe that chimping may be mandatory to check battery charge, frame count of change iso with a $7K or 8K Leica. Which is why I prefer the top display on the M8.2. Regarding the OP's question...for me the issue isn't analog versus digital, but rather about easy access (viewing and selection) and, if touch controls are needed, one-touch versus multiple touch. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted January 16, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 16, 2012 i believe the M9 is the worst M ever made in this regard. The M8 and M9 cameras have, in my opinion, a bad design of controls. The analog controls are fewer than those of film cameras (the ISO wheel has disappeared), and there are too many "digital" controls at the back (4 directional buttons, a wheel, 6 pre-configured buttons...). A really good "digital" design is that of the S2 camera. Very few and modal digital controls at the back (4 large configurable buttons calling a different menu placed in one of each corner of the LCD screen, plus a pushable control wheel and an additional small one for AE/AF blocking). This is a cleaner but more configurable system. The two cameras (S2 and M9) are different, but I expect some kind of convergence in the design of the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 16, 2012 Yes at the launch of the M8 some of us complained about the lack of analog iso control but at least we had the little top display then. Looked a bit ridiculous compared to that of most entry DSLRs but at least we had it. Now all what Leica has been able to do with the M9 was not only doing nothing about iso control but they removed the top display by the same token or lack thereof. Makes another chimping cam to me. The M10 will be more Leica like hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted January 17, 2012 It's not a case of either or, but which works better. You don't need too many dial and levers. Sometimes a menu setting may be easier, as long as it isn't buried. But dials for shutter speeds and apertures, and a few more, are faster and easier to use. This design philosophy is classic Leica: concentration on the essentials. It flies in the face of the current techno design ethos, which is to add more and more features: scenes, art filters, toy and miniature, pinhole, and so on. Too many options are distracting and don't necessarily make for better pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share #19 Posted January 17, 2012 What do children - the next generation of camera users - say to this?Jan Actually, kids who looked at a IIIa said, "cool." Just because digital touchscreen menus are the norm for cell phones doesn't mean that's the only design solution. Sometimes newer isn't better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share #20 Posted January 17, 2012 The M8 and M9 cameras have, in my opinion, a bad design of controls. The analog controls are fewer than those of film cameras (the ISO wheel has disappeared), and there are too many "digital" controls at the back (4 directional buttons, a wheel, 6 pre-configured buttons...). A really good "digital" design is that of the S2 camera. Very few and modal digital controls at the back (4 large configurable buttons calling a different menu placed in one of each corner of the LCD screen, plus a pushable control wheel and an additional small one for AE/AF blocking). This is a cleaner but more configurable system. The two cameras (S2 and M9) are different, but I expect some kind of convergence in the design of the M10. S2 sounds good. In terms of simplicity and clarity, the M9 is well designed, IMO, way ahead of just about all other models apart from the X1 and possibly a few of the latest Fuji offerings. That doesn't mean it's perfect or can't change. For example, why two buttons for "set" and "menu"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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