wlaidlaw Posted September 14, 2011 Share #1 Posted September 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I suppose it is each to their own but I cannot understand the price that is currently being bid for this rather battered looking black 50mm Summicron--M here: Leitz Leica Black Paint 50mm Summicron -M f/2 E39 Germany lens / Type 1 ( RARE ) | eBay You can easily pick up chrome versions of this lens, in considerably better condition, for around $1000 to $1500. I have lots of old cameras I use, Leica, Contax, Rollei and Minox. I like them to be in nice condition and working properly. However, it matters not a hoot whether it is the rare one, with the cast brass left handed flungle spracket, only made on leap year 29th of Februarys, if it does not affect the functioning. I guess the difference is I use my old cameras, other than the plate ones, where it is just too much work to coat bits of glass badly with emulsion and get useless photos. The folks who will buy this lens, will leave it in a display case and only take it out twice a year to fondle it. It must give them pleasure or they would not part with this sort of money. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Old Black Paint 50mm Summcron-M fetching silly price. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Posted September 14, 2011 Share #2 Posted September 14, 2011 @Wilson, you're absolutely right, but you won't change the mind of such collectors. As you might know some of them will pay up to a million $ for strange or seldom leica/leitz-items. Surely they like dealing in antiques things and such old Leica-stuff belongs to this like old pictures, oldtimer-cars and others... Never mind - enjoy good pictures;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted September 14, 2011 I equally hate old cars/bikes and all other bits of lovely old machinery, which are left to moulder unused in museums. All of these were designed to have a function and it is just wrong to have them as non-working static exhibits. When I see what is happening to the cars in the Musée de l'Automobile in Mulhouse, it makes me really cross. They were far better kept and used regularly, when they were in the hands of the Schlumpf brothers. They used to lend them out for free to locals to be used in weddings, etc. This museum has a huge number of duplicate Bugattis, tucked away in warehouses, not even on display. We have been trying for years to buy some of these to restore and put back into use. This would generate funds to allow the museum to restore their other exhibits. However, they claim that the French government prevents them from selling. I think the museum staff and management are just hoarders who hate letting anything out of their possession. They are certainly not doing anyone any good sitting rotting away in warehouses, unseen by anyone except the museum staff. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 14, 2011 Share #4 Posted September 14, 2011 As soon as an e-Bay offer includes the word "rare" hand your credit card to your wife! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted September 14, 2011 Share #5 Posted September 14, 2011 If your objective is to make pictures, these things are ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 14, 2011 Share #6 Posted September 14, 2011 I suppose it is each to their own but I cannot understand the price that is currently being bid for this rather battered looking black 50mm Summicron--M here: Leitz Leica Black Paint 50mm Summicron -M f/2 E39 Germany lens / Type 1 ( RARE ) | eBay You can easily pick up chrome versions of this lens, in considerably better condition, for around $1000 to $1500. I have lots of old cameras I use, Leica, Contax, Rollei and Minox. I like them to be in nice condition and working properly. However, it matters not a hoot whether it is the rare one, with the cast brass left handed flungle spracket, only made on leap year 29th of Februarys, if it does not affect the functioning. I guess the difference is I use my old cameras, other than the plate ones, where it is just too much work to coat bits of glass badly with emulsion and get useless photos. The folks who will buy this lens, will leave it in a display case and only take it out twice a year to fondle it. It must give them pleasure or they would not part with this sort of money. Wilson Some collectors enjoy lenses - others enjoy Bugatti cars! Leica collectors not only seek black paint lenses and cameras just for their 'blackness' - they also seek varieties of them. For example, the first rigid mount 50mm Summicron M was made with different types of focusing ring knurling (in the groove or on the top of the ring next to the groove) , different types of focusing scales (dual, single meters and single feet) , different types of lettering, different styles of focusing lever - all variations are 'box office' discussion subjects amongst collectors. Maybe they do not use their cameras every day - but do vintage Bugatti owners use their cars daily? Everyone to their own - live and let live - and if this lens ends up in a collector's den in Hong Kong so be it - it will probably be shown with pride to a few more collectors there too. Whoever buys this lens just might have other varieties of black paint 50mm Summicron lenses and thus this variation might provide him with a sought after missing link and give him the satisfaction of one more piece for his collection. Maybe a bit like someone buying a second Bugatti? And who knows - it might just have some interesting provenance that the seller is unaware of - but which the buyer just might know about. Last year I was shown a very worn black paint M3 - it had a very special charisma and I will never forget it - mere photographs could never do it justice. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 14, 2011 Share #7 Posted September 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Such an item has nothing to do about USING, and about its value in the context of. The Summicron 50 1st type in black is indeed super rare and very appealing for collectors, simply... no comment on the price asked, but is normal that is unrelated to the mean price of contemporary standard chromes. They appear time to time for sale, even at well known dealers and auction sites... of course, is an item to be closely verified, for, after all, is simply black painted and no more... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 14, 2011 Share #8 Posted September 14, 2011 I suppose it is each to their own but I cannot understand the price that is currently being bid for this rather battered looking black 50mm Summicron--M here: Leitz Leica Black Paint 50mm Summicron -M f/2 E39 Germany lens / Type 1 ( RARE ) | eBay You can easily pick up chrome versions of this lens, in considerably better condition, for around $1000 to $1500. I have lots of old cameras I use, Leica, Contax, Rollei and Minox. I like them to be in nice condition and working properly. However, it matters not a hoot whether it is the rare one, with the cast brass left handed flungle spracket, only made on leap year 29th of Februarys, if it does not affect the functioning. I guess the difference is I use my old cameras, other than the plate ones, where it is just too much work to coat bits of glass badly with emulsion and get useless photos. The folks who will buy this lens, will leave it in a display case and only take it out twice a year to fondle it. It must give them pleasure or they would not part with this sort of money. Wilson Dear Sir, just remember you that here is the Leica Collectors and Historica with subjects dedicated to.(including rare items with stellar prices..) The users forum is at an another address... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted September 14, 2011 Share #9 Posted September 14, 2011 At least there is an alternative if you want to use a type 1 Summicron, just try and buy a 35mm f/2.8 Summaron with screw thread, the only 'modern' 35 Leica lens you can get for a Barnack camera (apart from even more highly priced special Summicrons). Thank goodness for Mr Kobayashi alias Voigtlander Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted September 14, 2011 Dear Sir, just remember you that here is the Leica Collectors and Historica with subjects dedicated to.(including rare items with stellar prices..) The users forum is at an another address... Fair point but I too would regard myself as a Leica Collector. However, I still think from what I read here, that the great majority of posters, even on this section of the forum, use their collectors' equipment. I suspect that this black Summicron may never be used again. Functionally it is identical to the much cheaper chrome lens and I personally cannot understand the will to pay a large premium for a minor cosmetic difference, just because it is a rare variation. I would be happy to pay for something that was functionally unique. For example, I paid a fair amount for a very good condition Contax IIA, as that was a technological tour de force for its period and have paid fair amounts for the long Telyt lenses. I would pay extra to swap my chrome 65mm Elmar for a black one but that is because the black one has better optics. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted September 14, 2011 Share #11 Posted September 14, 2011 I equally hate old cars/bikes and all other bits of lovely old machinery, which are left to moulder unused in museums. All of these were designed to have a function and it is just wrong to have them as non-working static exhibits. When I see what is happening to the cars in the Musée de l'Automobile in Mulhouse, it makes me really cross. They were far better kept and used regularly, when they were in the hands of the Schlumpf brothers. They used to lend them out for free to locals to be used in weddings, etc. This museum has a huge number of duplicate Bugattis, tucked away in warehouses, not even on display. We have been trying for years to buy some of these to restore and put back into use. This would generate funds to allow the museum to restore their other exhibits. However, they claim that the French government prevents them from selling. I think the museum staff and management are just hoarders who hate letting anything out of their possession. They are certainly not doing anyone any good sitting rotting away in warehouses, unseen by anyone except the museum staff. Wilson Theirs a lot of thick tape when history is involve... History 101. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted September 14, 2011 At least there is an alternative if you want to use a type 1 Summicron, just try and buy a 35mm f/2.8 Summaron with screw thread, the only 'modern' 35 Leica lens you can get for a Barnack camera (apart from even more highly priced special Summicrons).Thank goodness for Mr Kobayashi alias Voigtlander Gerry Even if from time to time, they are less than well made. Anyone want a "soft focus" 35/2.5 LTM Color Skopar? Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 14, 2011 Share #13 Posted September 14, 2011 I would pay extra to swap my chrome 65mm Elmar for a black one but that is because the black one has better optics. Wilson Another user attitude, a collector 'ld keep the silver one .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted September 14, 2011 Share #14 Posted September 14, 2011 Even if from time to time, they are less than well made. Anyone want a "soft focus" 35/2.5 LTM Color Skopar? Wilson no thanks, I already have a nice sharp one! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 14, 2011 Share #15 Posted September 14, 2011 When I see what is happening to the cars in the Musée de l'Automobile in Mulhouse, it makes me really cross. They were far better kept and used regularly, when they were in the hands of the Schlumpf brothers. They used to lend them out for free to locals to be used in weddings, etc. This museum has a huge number of duplicate Bugattis, tucked away in warehouses, not even on display. We have been trying for years to buy some of these to restore and put back into use. This would generate funds to allow the museum to restore their other exhibits. However, they claim that the French government prevents them from selling. I think the museum staff and management are just hoarders who hate letting anything out of their possession. They are certainly not doing anyone any good sitting rotting away in warehouses, unseen by anyone except the museum staff. I've been there a couple of times (though not behind the scenes). Until then I never imagined a collection could have too many Bugattis:) and it is rather sad in a way. Last time I was there they had a little Salmson or Amilcar or some such puttering around the aisles, which was something. But as a national museum it's almost certainly not allowed to dispose of anything in its collection to the private sector even if it wanted to (national museums in the UK and I guess almost all countries have similar limitations - can't have the British Museum selling the Elgin Marbles to a Russian oligarch:rolleyes:). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted September 15, 2011 John, What you see in the museum is far from all the Bugattis they have. There are lots more unrestored (and probably never will be restored), lying in warehouses. Just to give you one example, I think they have two or three type 54 Grand Prix cars (out of only 5 remaining original cars left in the world), which have never been displayed. They may well be damaged. Bugatti clubs have tried all sorts of offers e.g. with permanent title remaining with the museum, reversionary purchase agreements, etc, all to no avail. We Bugatti enthusiasts would just like to see these cars being restored and used. I was quietly told by one of the curators last year, that now only around 1/3rd or less of the Bugattis on display can potentially be runners, with the rest all needing major work. Virtually none of the non-displayed cars are runners. All very sad. At least the British Museum keep the Elgin Marbles in nice condition nowadays, although many years ago, someone gave them a good "scrub up" with a wire brush and Ajax lavatory cleaner. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted September 15, 2011 Share #17 Posted September 15, 2011 Fair point but I too would regard myself as a Leica Collector. However, I still think from what I read here, that the great majority of posters, even on this section of the forum, use their collectors' equipment. I suspect that this black Summicron may never be used again. Functionally it is identical to the much cheaper chrome lens and I personally cannot understand the will to pay a large premium for a minor cosmetic difference, just because it is a rare variation. I would be happy to pay for something that was functionally unique. For example, I paid a fair amount for a very good condition Contax IIA, as that was a technological tour de force for its period and have paid fair amounts for the long Telyt lenses. I would pay extra to swap my chrome 65mm Elmar for a black one but that is because the black one has better optics. Wilson Don't try to understand. Collectors speak another language than your "logical" one, thanks God. A technical user's manual writer shouldn't try to rate a poet's text... That being said, and as a (former) collector, I also wonder the prices paid for some pieces, but I definitely set totally apart "collecting" and "using". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmith Posted September 15, 2011 Share #18 Posted September 15, 2011 I have a 35 mm f 2.8 Summaron screw lens. It sits on my IIIf. I had no idea it was rare but I have no intention of selling it - it is far too good a lens. Alwyn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted September 20, 2011 Share #19 Posted September 20, 2011 I suppose it is each to their own but I cannot understand the price that is currently being bid for this rather battered looking black 50mm Summicron--M here: Leitz Leica Black Paint 50mm Summicron -M f/2 E39 Germany lens / Type 1 ( RARE ) | eBay You can easily pick up chrome versions of this lens, in considerably better condition, for around $1000 to $1500. I have lots of old cameras I use, Leica, Contax, Rollei and Minox. I like them to be in nice condition and working properly. However, it matters not a hoot whether it is the rare one, with the cast brass left handed flungle spracket, only made on leap year 29th of Februarys, if it does not affect the functioning. I guess the difference is I use my old cameras, other than the plate ones, where it is just too much work to coat bits of glass badly with emulsion and get useless photos. The folks who will buy this lens, will leave it in a display case and only take it out twice a year to fondle it. It must give them pleasure or they would not part with this sort of money. Wilson Next to my comment on collecting, I'd like to add that I had a black paint Summicron 50 serialled 1587389 (against 1587365 for the one in question) in my collection in 1986. I look for a most probably existing picture to publish here later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 20, 2011 Share #20 Posted September 20, 2011 ... And Lager displays 1587559 ; anyway, I see that the ebay item has gone for 8200 US$... no bad for the seller, considering that 1587506 and 1587523 (this one, much finer) went for 3000 and 4320 Euros at a well known auctioneer, no much time ago... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.