A new (?) ruse in this Forum?

[vanhulsenbeek]

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Several times in the last weeks I have seen something like this:

 

"Forgive me if this has previously been covered....."

 

and then comes subject matter, the answers to which can be found in a minute in the (great) FAQ or by a simple Search.

 

Forum members (some) are to polite not to reply, commendable in itself, but guys, we are all stepping into that "again and again carousel" ! Mods?

[dwbell]

I've voiced this before and I'll voice it again.

 

When I bought my M9, I had questions. I wanted to discuss, that's an interactive process, not a passive process of reading a searched thread. Often times polite old timers would help me out a lot, re-explaining things in a way that sunk in. Often other new users would discuss with me the same issues. That helped all of us.

 

I'm sure you've had your chance to discuss these things actively. I asked then, and I ask now that you allow others that chance. It's not your forum, it's an M9 user forum. If you have questions about an M9 and want to discuss them, this is the place for you, however new or old you are to the camera.

 

I posted a new thread comparing the 5DII to the M9. Has it been discussed before? Hell yeah. Did it throw up a lot of useful new information and ideas? Most people seemed to think so.

 

There's no such thing as a stupid question and discussion is always good.

 

Kindest regards

DWBell

[vanhulsenbeek]

Hi DWbell!

 

Your point is completely valid IHMO and threads like you mention are the bread and butter of this Forum. Only sometimes, and more so quite recently, usually in technical matters, I get the impression that the OP just does not wish to take the trouble looking at the FAQ or doing a search. Maybe the title of the FAQ is not inviting enough? My 2 cents worth. And yes, it is certainly not my Forum

 

I've voiced this before and I'll voice it again.

 

When I bought my M9, I had questions. I wanted to discuss, that's an interactive process, not a passive process of reading a searched thread. Often times polite old timers would help me out a lot, re-explaining things in a way that sunk in. Often other new users would discuss with me the same issues. That helped all of us.

 

I'm sure you've had your chance to discuss these things actively. I asked then, and I ask now that you allow others that chance. It's not your forum, it's an M9 user forum. If you have questions about an M9 and want to discuss them, this is the place for you, however new or old you are to the camera.

 

I posted a new thread comparing the 5DII to the M9. Has it been discussed before? Hell yeah. Did it throw up a lot of useful new information and ideas? Most people seemed to think so.

 

There's no such thing as a stupid question and discussion is always good.

 

Kindest regards

DWBell

[pico]

Several times in the last weeks I have seen something like this:

 

"Forgive me if this has previously been covered....."

 

A search will show that your topic has been previously covered.

[vanhulsenbeek]

[delander †]

There is currently a sparcity of interesting threads in the M9 forum as the camera is now almost 2 years old. I would hate to see even fewer threads.

 

By posing a question new members are able to introduce themselves to the forum and in any case even if it is a repeat question then sometimes the answers are not the same as previously. It is all good fun and no-one is obliged to take part in any thread. Additionally just refering people to the FAQ or to searches does not give the image of a friendly forum. A newbie might form the view that we Leica users are just so 'superior' and put them off buying a Leica.

Jeff

[stunsworth]

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One problem is that the "do a search" responses take up more bandwidth that just answering the original post in the first place.

[markgay]

People just want to talk.

 

The problem with doing a search is you then have to think hard about what it is you really want to know that has not already been answered

 

So much easier to just ask the question again.

 

(Also, you'd be amazed how many people don't know how to search. I train young wannabe journalists who struggle for half an hour to get info out of Google that takes me 30 seconds. I actually do not know what the problem is but I see it every day)

[otto.f]

Several times in the last weeks I have seen something like this:

 

"Forgive me if this has previously been covered....."

 

and then comes subject matter, the answers to which can be found in a minute in the (great) FAQ or by a simple Search.

 

Forum members (some) are to polite not to reply, commendable in itself, but guys, we are all stepping into that "again and again carousel" ! Mods?

 

Photomagazines have repeated the same basic principles, tips and trics, lessons in composition, etc. over and over again during the years '60-'90

[J_Thompson]

They stopped in 1990? Who knew.

[joeq]

Several times in the last weeks I have seen something like this:

 

"Forgive me if this has previously been covered....."

 

and then comes subject matter, the answers to which can be found in a minute in the (great) FAQ or by a simple Search.

 

Forum members (some) are to polite not to reply, commendable in itself, but guys, we are all stepping into that "again and again carousel" ! Mods?

 

I love self-appointed Internet cops.

 

This damages you how?

[Washington]

I tend to think that questions, redundant or not, isn’t a bad thing. If you really think

about it, every question asked can be answered elsewhere… with some searching.

This being the case…. then why have a forum at all?

At different times, different people respond, and sometimes with a whole new point-

of-view that leads to new and interesting topics. No, I think it best to encourage

folks to ask.

[jaques]

you see this exact issue all over the net on forums of all types- what I can't understand is people who cannot be bothered to answer the question- but who can be bothered to post a (usually) rude comment telling the questioner to search for the answer.

 

I always think: why do you bother? If you are trying to be helpful post a link to the search in question...

 

It is true that people ask the dumbest questions... repeatedly. I just ignore them or answer them.

 

Fact is: internet forums tend to enable some people to be malicious. Over time you see forums where certain daily posters start to dominate discussions - many times they are indeed very knowledgeable- but many times they are also dismissive and even outright aggressive. The end result is forums slowly die an unseemly death. New users get insulted from the first post- and don't come back. Old posters accrue bitter enemies and stalwart cronies. Endless meaningless un-winnable wars ensue. Everyone else loses interest and moves on.

[Steve Ash]

A new post might raise new perspectives as others might step into the discussion who have not followed the older thread aswell. Thus I welcome new threads even if the topic might have been dealt with before.

 

Regards

Steve

 

PS: Well, the stupid question regarding " Do I need to clean my sensor? Does Leica delivers them dirty? Might dirt enter the camera while changing lenses? " might be one exception.

[luigi bertolotti]

For people, like me, who enter the forum almost daily, recurring questions are indeed a bit annoying... but if one gives a look to members' figures, there are really many with much lower presence... imho if this wants to be a FORUM, it must be accepted a certain "noise" of repeated arguments: which will be the alternative ? A lot of work by mods to decide what is "new" and what is not, probably ending with the need to implement this site as a big specialized search engine... so finally losing the spirit of chat and collaboration that is the tasty part of our forum; I agree that there are almost unuseful questions (the above example of "sensor cleaning" is typical... time to time there is even some questions like "do I need UVIR filter on M8 ?"... ). And there are also recurring questions like "... new to Leica, which lenses...?" which always sprout a number of answers between which there is often some original / new / intelligent opinion...

 

My idea is that things can stay like now,,, after all, if a question is really stupid it can get very few or no answers at all (it happens, indeed) making the "noise" negligible in terms of workload...

[otto.f]

Most 'stupid' or repeated questions do not ask for a true/false kind of answer but ask for opinions and individual ways of using the system, that can be responded by people who are just as new to the forum as the threadstarter. A forum is mostly about sharing of 'I did it my way' and 'Look what happened to me'. Also, there are quite a few images that sort of have been done a 1000 times before. If it's not interesting for you pass on to another thread

[Gibbo]

Imagine you are in a strange town and you need help to find the nearest chemist

so you go to the tourist information centre. An apparantly smart chap is standing

behind a counter. He looks like he is bound to have the answer you require and this

inspires you to summon up courage and ask. You overcome your nervousness and

say 'excuse me sir, where is the nearest chemist?'. Imagine now just how small and

insignificant you feel when he curtly replies 'there are leaflets over there on the shelf,

look it up for yourself and stop wasting my time. You're the fourth person to ask that

question today and I have far better things to do than answer it again.'

 

Who is the fool in this situation? The person asking for information that others have

also needed to seek, or the person possessing the knowledge who cannot lower

themselves from their lofty perch to answer the question?

 

And why do so many forum users worry their heads about bandwidth and whether

or not it is being wasted? Are they sure that all their own posts are invaluable?

[pico]

[... blah blah blah ...]Over time you see forums where certain daily posters start to dominate discussions - many times they are indeed very knowledgeable- but many times they are also dismissive and even outright aggressive. The end result is forums slowly die an unseemly death. New users get insulted from the first post- and don't come back. Old posters accrue bitter enemies and stalwart cronies. Endless meaningless un-winnable wars ensue. Everyone else loses interest and moves on.

 

And then there are the posters like you who mention the obvious for unnamed general internet groups, but ignore the specific virtues of the one in which you are posting.

 

Rubber-stamp does not apply here.

[plasticman]

And then there are the posters like you who mention the obvious for unnamed general internet groups, but ignore the specific virtues of the one in which you are posting.

 

Rubber-stamp does not apply here.

 

Suggesting that Leica users are somehow 'above the rabble' of ordinary internet communication? I think most of us recognize what Jaques was saying in his post, even here.

 

One of the most obvious manifestations are the usual suspects who pounce on a new member who dares to begin their participation on the forum with a problem with their M9 (or previously, their M8). I could make a list of the attacks that inevitably follow, and whence they come.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jaapv]

Depite all this I'll still answer: FAQ post # xx. That is why we started the FAQ. A service for new members, to be able to look up the most obvious questions.