Collapsible 50mm Summicron -- what's the problem?

[scott kirkpatrick]

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After seeing that this lens was not supported on the M8, in fact it is singled out for non-support, and hearing someone else say that they got stuck trying to focus it, I finally got courageous and tried mine this morning. Here's the result:

 

 

I had no problems. Extended the lens first, then inserted it. Focus was smooth. It doesn't retract very far, maybe 6 mm into the camera body, but I haven't tried that.

 

scott

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[stunsworth]

Scott, I think the concern is that is the lens is collapsed while on the camera body it can damage the shutter. Certainly there's a warning about using collapsable lenses in the M8 manual.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Scott, I think the concern is that is the lens is collapsed while on the camera body it can damage the shutter.

 

That can't be it. The lens tube extends less than one cm into the body, and the shutter is located 27 mm in. There are protrusions from the sides of the camera in the M8 that are absent in the M7 and previous cameras, so that's why I didn't try to collapse it. But I set up on a tripod and shot my wall of books, and the old Summicron was sharp and contrasty (lit to prevent flare) across the frame. I think I'll find a use for it. Even though I have a Nokton 1.5 to cover that focal length.

 

scott

[doubice]

Scott and Steve,

 

All collapsible lenses can be used, as long as they are not collapsed into the body and if you can live without the coding.

 

The reason Leica does not recommend using the collapsibles is simple - some hamfisted M8 owners might use too much force in trying to collapse the lens into the body, thus marring or damaging the protrusions inside the shutter box.

 

During the M5's less litigious times all that neeeded to be said by Leitz was - becareful when collapsing so that you do not damage the meter cell. In today's world unfortunately, the wording has to be different.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[grober]

The new CV 50mm Heliar, when collapsed, protrudes LESS than the rear of my rigid Summicron 35-ASPH. I use this 50 on my M8 without problem.

 

THE issue is potential contact with the fragile metal shutter curtain. Read Leica's published list of prohibited lenses, individually evaluate any non-Leica optics you elect to use and make your choices accordingly.

 

-g

[cbretteville]

I beleive this is a better safe than sorry (CYA) from Leica. Some collapsible lens (50 Elmar?) produdes too far in and will cause damage to the M8 shutter. Initally the 90 macro elmar wasn't even excluded.

[j. borger]

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Looks like a mighty fine performer on the M8 if you ask me Scott:)

[scott kirkpatrick]

Looks like a mighty fine performer on the M8 if you ask me Scott:)

 

In the right lighting, yes. But its flare is awesome, as you might expect for a lens that is little changed from a 1930s design. I first did that shot with the bright sunlit spot off to the side and my daughter on the right side of the couch. The flare from the sunlit spot fogged out the rest of the picture. What worked was asking her to pretend she was asleep at the beach in the warm sun.

 

scott

[scott kirkpatrick]

I beleive this is a better safe than sorry (CYA) from Leica. Some collapsible lens (50 Elmar?) produdes too far in and will cause damage to the M8 shutter. Initally the 90 macro elmar wasn't even excluded.

 

Probably so. The old 90 Elmar 4.0 portrudes almost 2 cm inside the mount when collapsed. It might hit something. I have used a Canon 19mm lens, also from the 1950s or 1960s, which ends up about 9 mm from the CCD, less than that from the shutter. But it doesn't vignette too badly, exposures seem to be accurate -- no problem. And there is a thread on Great Old Performers that started with a 1954 Zeiss 21mm that is similar at the back. Those two lenses are much smaller in diameter then the collapsing lens tube of the 50s and 90s.

 

scott

[Joe S]

It appears that my collapsible Summicron 50mm can easily and safely collapse into the body of my M8. I have read conflicting advice such as it works fine but Leica has advised against it. Is there any reason for concern. I understand that some lenses such as the old 50mm Elmar collapse very deeply and can damage the shutter. Is anyone collapsing their old 50mm Summicron safely?

[Shade]

I think Leica wants to be safe about these collapsible lenses and doesnt want to be held liable for the damage it may have caused. In short Leica is trying to convey "do it at your own risk". But that doesnt sound too nice, so they said excluded.

[Joe S]

It would seem pretty simple matter for Leica, a rather precise company, to measure the lens and allow a few millimeters or so for a safety factor. I bet they even have some old drawings laying around and wouldn't have to measure I don't understand what "risk" would be involved in this.

[hoppyman]

I just looked. I have one of those collapsible Summicrons on hand and my M9. The first thing you see is that, If the lens is collapsed and the lens is not SQUARELY ALIGNED when you present it to the bayonet (or on removal) you could easily foul the roller assembly. I did not try to collapse the lens when mounted (nor would I, whether someone reported no problem or not!)

 

There is a risk. There are methods to avoid that, including adding a cable tie or similar around the lens barrel to prevent inadvertant collapsing.

 

Leica Camera's advice is sound. No guess work involved on their part, just sensible advice to help their customers avoid a potential problem. If it wasn't included in the instructions you can bet that we would have posts here complaining that people have damaged their cameras

[lct]

No problem with the Summicron 50 collapsible on the M8.2. The barrel protrudes significantly less than Elmars 50 when collapsed. Better keep it extended when mounting as usual.

See also: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/86670-how-good-m8-m6-d3-user.html#post909253

[250swb]

I've never looked inside an M8 to see if the inside is of smaller dimensions, but on an M9 my 50mm Summmitar, 5cm Elmar, and 50mm Elmar M can all be collapsed fully and they can be mounted when collapsed. I suppose Leica's advice is to avoid clumsy people scratching the inside of the camera by trying to mount the lens sideways or something.

 

Steve

[bill]

Interestingly, Ricoh provide a little "gauge" with the GXR M-Mount. It looks a bit like a black plastic champagne cork cage. You can easily put your lenses in that and test them. It's a simple but effective idea and it took me moments to check my collapsible lenses (none of them fit) for the GXR. I'd like to see Leica offer something so simple but effective.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Joe S]

"No problem with the Summicron 50 collapsible on the M8.2. The barrel protrudes significantly less than Elmars 50 when collapsed. Better keep it extended when mounting as usual."

 

 

Thanks for the confirmation. It is unfortunate that Leica wasn't more forthcoming on this as not collapsing the lens takes away the great utility of this compact pairing. I think the key point is to mount the lens with the lens extended to avoid any damage should the lens not be presented perfectly squarely into the opening. I assume the roller assembly must be in the same position as it was on my old M3 so the situation would be the same and would represent good practice with any M camera.

[hoppyman]

And if the lens is collapsed and you remove it while not holding the lens square to the body. And if the infinity lock gets engaged accidentally you have the lens locked with the most protrusion into the body. Keep in mind that this is a pretty old and discontinued lens of course.

 

I think you are being a bit tough on Leica Camera saying that they should be more forthcoming. There is some risk and they have a precaution about when you use it in the instructions.

Sounds sensible to me to help avoid some people possibly damaging their cameras.

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[Joe S]

Of course the lens should be extended when removing as well as mounting. On my lens it makes no difference if the infinity lock is engaged or not; the focusing cam still lies safely within the mount.