myshkine Posted February 14, 2011 Share #1 Posted February 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Foreword: I am not a professional, nor an experience amateur. I had my M6TTL for one year, and shoot maybe three rolls a month. So I'm far from experienced, and I need some advice. Some of my photos (two examples shown) have a strong reddish/magenta cast. The film is Velvia 100F. I suspect they are strongly underexposed, even though I followed the camera's meter indication. It is possible that I exposed for the shadows, but the day was overcast, so there were no real highlights. I have scanned them at 1440dpi with a Plustek. The examples shown are without manipulation. Maybe the film has a very low tolerance, but I did'nt expect such bad results, and I'm a bit disappointed. Is it possible that, apart from my abilities, the meter is giving inconsistent readings? Other photos look better, although I have the impression that most of my shots are underexposed (and need some fairly extensive PP to be acceptable). Thanks for any input. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/144135-underexposure-problem-need-help/?do=findComment&comment=1588050'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 Hi myshkine, Take a look here Underexposure problem, need help. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
aesop Posted February 15, 2011 Share #2 Posted February 15, 2011 Foreword: I am not a professional, nor an experience amateur. I had my M6TTL for one year, and shoot maybe three rolls a month. So I'm far from experienced, and I need some advice.Some of my photos (two examples shown) have a strong reddish/magenta cast. The film is Velvia 100F. I suspect they are strongly underexposed, even though I followed the camera's meter indication. It is possible that I exposed for the shadows, but the day was overcast, so there were no real highlights. I have scanned them at 1440dpi with a Plustek. The examples shown are without manipulation. Maybe the film has a very low tolerance, but I did'nt expect such bad results, and I'm a bit disappointed. Is it possible that, apart from my abilities, the meter is giving inconsistent readings? Other photos look better, although I have the impression that most of my shots are underexposed (and need some fairly extensive PP to be acceptable). Thanks for any input. ...I would definitely start off by checking the meter out, myshkine - a simple comparison with a separate fully functional meter should clarify matters. It could also be that your shutter speeds are out of whack, but detection and repair would require a more specialised approach. Worse still, it could be a combination of these two or more factors, so let's hope it is down to something a bit more prosaic, like user error . My assumption here is that your film was not compromised prior to or during processing. Let us know how you get on with the first step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted February 15, 2011 Share #3 Posted February 15, 2011 Foreword: I am not a professional, nor an experience amateur. I had my M6TTL for one year, and shoot maybe three rolls a month. So I'm far from experienced, and I need some advice.Some of my photos (two examples shown) have a strong reddish/magenta cast. The film is Velvia 100F. I suspect they are strongly underexposed, even though I followed the camera's meter indication. It is possible that I exposed for the shadows, but the day was overcast, so there were no real highlights. I have scanned them at 1440dpi with a Plustek. The examples shown are without manipulation. Maybe the film has a very low tolerance, but I did'nt expect such bad results, and I'm a bit disappointed. Is it possible that, apart from my abilities, the meter is giving inconsistent readings? Other photos look better, although I have the impression that most of my shots are underexposed (and need some fairly extensive PP to be acceptable). Thanks for any input. My initial guess is that these photos were made some months ago. Many color films do not have good latent image keeping properties (there's probably some vocabulary I'm missing here) and will shift colors and exposure if not processed promptly... OTOH you've told us that you use about three rolls/month. That should be prompt enough. Were the exposures that had problems the first on the roll of film? My second hunch is that the meter was influenced by the overcast sky, which is much brighter than the buildings or statues. When taking my meter reading I'd be sure the sky was not influencing the reading, by aiming the camera at an area lit like the buildings but with no sky in the image area. Don't use auto-exposure in situations like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted February 15, 2011 Share #4 Posted February 15, 2011 I am wondering about processing. It looks like you are about 2 stops underexposed, but that should not cause a magenta shift, I don't think. What does the rest of the roll look like? If it is only these two shots, that would eliminate a processing problem. If the whole roll is underexposed and there is a colour shift consistently - I would suspect processing. If you were metering the shadows, you would get overexposure, so that seems not to be an issue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
too old to care Posted February 15, 2011 Share #5 Posted February 15, 2011 I vote for bad processing too. Looks like old chemicals or wrong times in them. You said the other shots are better, but how about seeing one or two of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted February 15, 2011 Share #6 Posted February 15, 2011 Hi You need to look at the negatives & not scan them, if there are no details in the shadows then you have underexposed. You need to read the instruction manual carefully. there might be a camera or processing problem but more likely photographer is to blame. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted February 15, 2011 Share #7 Posted February 15, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Myshkine, It's quite difficult to tell because of the strong colour cast, but as others have said, these don't look like exposure problems. Even peering through the colour cast one can see that you've got both sky and shadow detail to some degree. They really do look more like a processing problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted February 15, 2011 I am wondering about processing. It looks like you are about 2 stops underexposed, but that should not cause a magenta shift, I don't think. What does the rest of the roll look like? If it is only these two shots, that would eliminate a processing problem. If the whole roll is underexposed and there is a colour shift consistently - I would suspect processing. If you were metering the shadows, you would get overexposure, so that seems not to be an issue... Thanks to all for your valuable and helpful comments. The rest of the roll is pretty much the same, colour shift is quite consistent, although some shots look a bit better. So I guess processing could be the issue here, the film was new. I will compare the meter reading with the readings from a Sekonic Twinmate I just bought, to check if there is an issue with the camera. I also thought that exposing for the shadows would have given overexposure at worst, but clearly the reverse is true. But I exposed another roll (Ektar 100) with my Olympus OM1 and the result (same lab) are correct. So I really am quite confused. I'll tr to change lab (or maybe start processing on my own...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 15, 2011 Share #9 Posted February 15, 2011 I note that you're using Fuji Velvia so can we rule out accidental cross-processing and ask you whether your lab used the E6 process to develop your slides instead of C41 please? Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted February 15, 2011 I note that you're using Fuji Velvia so can we rule out accidental cross-processing and ask you whether your lab used the E6 process to develop your slides instead of C41 please? Pete. Pete, I thought that transparency film needed E6 processing, not C41, but I'll have to' ask the lab what process they used. I have read about cross processing and understand that it results in color shift and stronger saturation, which seems to be the case with my slides. I would appreciate any clarification. I can add that I recently changed city and my previous rolls did not show problems of this magnitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted February 15, 2011 Hi You need to look at the negatives & not scan them, if there are no details in the shadows then you have underexposed. You need to read the instruction manual carefully. there might be a camera or processing problem but more likely photographer is to blame. Noel Noel, thanks for your advice. Now, clearly I still need to learn to use my M6 at its best. But if I compose a picture on a not particularly special light condition, follow the meter reading, focus to the best of my viewing ability (I use a diopter correction lens), press the shutter button, I can take a dull, or insignificant, or plainly uninteresting picture, but I would expect it to be at least more or less correct in the colour rendering. Am I completely wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 15, 2011 Share #12 Posted February 15, 2011 Pete, I thought that transparency film needed E6 processing, not C41, .... Yes, that's right. I'm just calling a long shot because I've seen some cross-processed Velvia with a magenta cast. (And some without magenta cast too.) Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted February 16, 2011 Share #13 Posted February 16, 2011 ... if I compose a picture on a not particularly special light condition, follow the meter reading, focus to the best of my viewing ability (I use a diopter correction lens), press the shutter button, I can take a dull, or insignificant, or plainly uninteresting picture, but I would expect it to be at least more or less correct in the colour rendering. Am I completely wrong? With the difficult lighting conditions in the posted photos another long-shot explanation for the color cast is lens flare. BTW I apologize for suggesting that you not use auto-exposure, I just noticed that your camera is an M6TTL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted February 16, 2011 Yes, that's right. I'm just calling a long shot because I've seen some cross-processed Velvia with a magenta cast. (And some without magenta cast too.) Pete. Well, your comment gave me a useful hint. Cross processing might well be a possibility, although I cannot immagine why a lab would do that. But as others have pointed out, underexposure (even strong) should not result in such a color shift. Thanks. I will continue to investigate, hoping to find a solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted February 16, 2011 Share #15 Posted February 16, 2011 Noel, thanks for your advice. Now, clearly I still need to learn to use my M6 at its best. But if I compose a picture on a not particularly special light condition, follow the meter reading, focus to the best of my viewing ability (I use a diopter correction lens), press the shutter button, I can take a dull, or insignificant, or plainly uninteresting picture, but I would expect it to be at least more or less correct in the colour rendering. Am I completely wrong? No you are not wrong at all... But bad exposure is normally several problems adding together, and The M6 meter is a semi spot reading and if your sceane has a very bright centre this would seduce the meter exposure reading, and you would get significant underexposure, if the whole roll is bad then this is very unlikely, but it is still important to read the user manual at least, it is very well written. I think it was Kodak who measured lots of sceanes and found out that a average reflected reading was close to optimal better then 99% of time, the semi spot would not be as representative. The semi spot is not like the multi metering pattern of a DSLR. It may be better to read about the zone system to use the semi spot to best effect if you want to reduce the spread of exposure you are using. Think the M6 meter is designed for tecco experts, the DSLR for artists. Normally I use a Weston and zone rules if the subject is difficult, removing the battery from my M6. So you might have a combination of things wrong, but if I got your images over a whole film I'd be worring about exhausted processing solutions, cause I do my own and push my luck, wringing out the max number of images. I'd try the lab they should know if they had other probems in the same batch. They may be reluctant to admit. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted February 16, 2011 No you are not wrong at all...But bad exposure is normally several problems adding together, and The M6 meter is a semi spot reading and if your sceane has a very bright centre this would seduce the meter exposure reading, and you would get significant underexposure, if the whole roll is bad then this is very unlikely, but it is still important to read the user manual at least, it is very well written. I think it was Kodak who measured lots of sceanes and found out that a average reflected reading was close to optimal better then 99% of time, the semi spot would not be as representative. The semi spot is not like the multi metering pattern of a DSLR. It may be better to read about the zone system to use the semi spot to best effect if you want to reduce the spread of exposure you are using. Think the M6 meter is designed for tecco experts, the DSLR for artists. Normally I use a Weston and zone rules if the subject is difficult, removing the battery from my M6. So you might have a combination of things wrong, but if I got your images over a whole film I'd be worring about exhausted processing solutions, cause I do my own and push my luck, wringing out the max number of images. I'd try the lab they should know if they had other probems in the same batch. They may be reluctant to admit. Noel Noel, Thanks for the interesting analysis. I am also starting to have a suspicion regarding my UV filter. I bought it recently, without thinking much about it. It is a B+W digital pro. I understand it is made especially for digital lenses, from what I read from their website. Is it possibile that it is producing a color shift on my Summicron? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 16, 2011 Share #17 Posted February 16, 2011 Noel, Thanks for the interesting analysis. I am also starting to have a suspicion regarding my UV filter. I bought it recently, without thinking much about it. It is a B+W digital pro. I understand it is made especially for digital lenses, from what I read from their website. Is it possibile that it is producing a color shift on my Summicron? No because ultraviolet is outside the visible spectrum, ie below about 400 nm, so it's only blocking wavelengths that you can't see. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 16, 2011 Share #18 Posted February 16, 2011 Looks like a processing error to me. Shoot another roll of film, get someone else to process it, and see how the results look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iShutterbug Posted February 17, 2011 Share #19 Posted February 17, 2011 Noel, Thanks for the interesting analysis. I am also starting to have a suspicion regarding my UV filter. I bought it recently, without thinking much about it. It is a B+W digital pro. I understand it is made especially for digital lenses, from what I read from their website. Is it possibile that it is producing a color shift on my Summicron? Like other respondents here, I see several variables in trying to troubleshoot your problem. My first thought was that your lens or filter might be in need of cleaning. I recently bought a new lens and then thought I'd get a new UV filter to use with it. Ordinarily I use Heliopan filters--which I've found will get hazy and need cleaning after a couple of months sitting around--but this time thought I'd get another brand, and got the latest multi-coated B&W filter. It was hard to clean and I got strange results, and even reflections, and thought it was the lens, but finally taking the filter off solved the problem. I'd say next test, whatever else you do, I'd make sure the filter was clean and take a few shots, then take some with the filter off, just to eliminate that variable. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkine Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted February 17, 2011 Looks like a processing error to me. Shoot another roll of film, get someone else to process it, and see how the results look. James, I'll do that and keep my fingers crossed. I'll also take the filter off, you never know. Thanks to the members for all the good advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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