pico Posted January 24, 2011 Share #61 Posted January 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) [he was speaking of EVIL]Focusing manually with magnified any part of frame after one finger touch is excelent. And fussy, and very slow, which is so contrary to contemporary photography, especially in Leica M work. Have you ever used it in real life? I have. Magnified view might be good for slow work, which is antithetical to Leica M work. It is just stupid. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi pico, Take a look here The R solution - more details. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Riley Posted January 24, 2011 Share #62 Posted January 24, 2011 And fussy, and very slow, which is so contrary to contemporary photography, especially in Leica M work. Magnified view is just stupid. Have you ever used it in real life? I have. I dont think it is I agree that EVF have their problems but really I do not find MF to be one of them, if anything making a decision on whether or not you are in focus is quicker not slower. As discussed the main problems I see with EVFs are low light and following movement. The answers most probably lay in higher framerates and denser elements with automated noise controls, neither are impossible things just expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 24, 2011 Share #63 Posted January 24, 2011 I dont think it isI agree that EVF have their problems but really I do not find MF to be one of them, if anything making a decision on whether or not you are in focus is quicker not slower Describe to us how you have used a magnified view with EVIL, and managed to see full-frame in an active situation. So do that, please. Most here don't know what magnified view is. Do you? And with what hardware? I suspect that your expectations are quite low. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 24, 2011 Share #64 Posted January 24, 2011 And fussy, and very slow, which is so contrary to contemporary photography, especially in Leica M work. Have you ever used it in real life? I have. Magnified view might be good for slow work, which is antithetical to Leica M work. It is just stupid.. I really love posts from people who never used manual focusing with magnification plus touch LCD (G2, GH2) or giving stupid comments about quality of today EVFs who never used GH2 EVF... I used for years G1\GH1\G2 with manual lenses, now I use NEX with manual lenses, apart from M9. There are many kinds of photography - when slowing down doesn't matter at all, but using M9 is slowing the process or forcing you to trial iterations... I love advices - shoot, check LCD, shoot... Nightmare! Why people at all compare EVILs with M9? NO-ONE said EVIL is to replace rangefinder. It has some benefits and weaknesses, exactly the same as a rangefinder. I personally would love to have FF EVIL accepting M lenses via adapter as M9 brother. Different applications. It would support me - where M9 is weak or almost uselesss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 24, 2011 Share #65 Posted January 24, 2011 I really love posts from people who never used manual focusing with magnification plus touch LCD (G2, GH2) or giving stupid comments about quality of today EVFs who never used GH2 EVF... I have news for you, boy. I have a G1, and have used it a lot with Leica and other lenses. So adjust your presumptions. I've also over forty years of M photography behind me. Read on. There are many kinds of photography - when slowing down doesn't matter at all, but using M9 is slowing the process or forcing you to trial iterations... I love advices - shoot, check LCD, shoot... Nightmare! Yeah, chimping. Experienced photographers don't do that. I suggest you migrate to some Asian brand and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 24, 2011 Share #66 Posted January 24, 2011 Master, don't take comments personally. Read too. If it is useless for you - probably limiting your photography to what M is best for (at least based on what you write) - doesn't mean it is useless for all and for all applications. Pls open your eyes, horizons. We do not talk only about rangefinder style photography and camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 24, 2011 Share #67 Posted January 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Describe to us how you have used a magnified view with EVIL, and managed to see full-frame in an active situation. So do that, please. Most here don't know what magnified view is. Do you? And with what hardware? I suspect that your expectations are quite low. . ok I shall try With a Panasonic EVF in MF mode the view you get is of the entire (user selectable) format size. You touch the focus ring and the MF window comes into view and magnifies 5 or 10x. This is called MF assist mode and you can turn it on or off, you can also select assist anytime with the left cursor, focus, shift back (automatic) and compose, shoot take a look at this video of a GH1 MF assist As you can see you can have live histogram as you shoot, and you can move it anywhere around the frame or remove it. You wont get MF to compete with AF in situations with more fluid movement unless you stop down and zone focus in the usual way. I shoot interiors for a living and this is no different to me with my 5D and a 18/4 Distagon on it, except I dont have MF assist on it which I would early love. [edit] oh great, now I find I've been led up a wattle, all I can do is hope the description or video is useful to someone..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 24, 2011 Share #68 Posted January 24, 2011 With a Panasonic EVF in MF mode And with new touch LCDs - using other than central point is much more quicker, because you do not need to use arrows and do not need to click any button, just touch the LCD in proper place. It starts magnification immediately. Focus. Press shutter. That's it. For readers - recent GH2 has newer EVF than all previous Lumix'es. PS: current mirrorless cameras with EVFs - do not show whole frame during manual focusing. So we all belive that LEICA would not fogert about it, as there isn't any technical reason stopping from implementing that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 24, 2011 Share #69 Posted January 24, 2011 Jerry, this is just a question. It's not intended to offend. If you prefer not to answer, please don't. If you do answer, I'll tell you why I ask. It's mere personal curiosity, not part of a social sciences study. It's directed solely to Jerry_R, and not a request for everyone to start plying me with his handedness. Jerry: Are you left-handed? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 24, 2011 Share #70 Posted January 24, 2011 ... chimping. Experienced photographers don't do that. I chimp to fine-tune exposure to avoid clipped highlights. I guess that makes me inexperienced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 24, 2011 Share #71 Posted January 24, 2011 ...all I can do is hope the description or video is useful to someone..... Sure it is thanks but you don't need to chimp to do manual focus i guess. Can you do the same with the EVF and how long does it take compared to a rangefinder? Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndr Posted January 24, 2011 Share #72 Posted January 24, 2011 Describe to us how you have used a magnified view with EVIL, and managed to see full-frame in an active situation.. The actual solution are not optimized for manual focusing. But I can imagine a solution with EVF: A frame shows the whole scene and in the middle (like in the rangefinder) is a square in higher magnification (it might be possible in a hybridfinder too). Best would be a solutions that can be controled via the direction your eye is looking inside the finder, would be useful for selecting menu items too. First thing can be realized via Software, second needs a special sensor. Kind regrads, Bernd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 24, 2011 Share #73 Posted January 24, 2011 Are you left-handed?Thanks. Howard, I am right-handed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2011 Share #74 Posted January 24, 2011 The actual solution are not optimized for manual focusing. But I can imagine a solution with EVF: A frame shows the whole scene and in the middle (like in the rangefinder) is a square in higher magnification (it might be possible in a hybridfinder too). Best would be a solutions that can be controled via the direction your eye is looking inside the finder, would be useful for selecting menu items too. First thing can be realized via Software, second needs a special sensor. Kind regrads, Bernd. Yes,that is what the Digilux2 does -it works,after a fashion. But there is nothing rangefinder-like about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 24, 2011 Share #75 Posted January 24, 2011 I guess theres a problem there with the angle of acceptance of microlenses, with the difference between incident light from say M mount VL UWA and long R lenses, I would think something would have to give there You can only optimize microlens shifting for one position of the exit pupil, implying it will be suboptimal for all the others. That’s inevitable and it might place a restriction on lenses that are easily adaptable. M lenses can be adapted to MFT bodies, for example, but there are known issues with wide-angle lenses – c’est la vie. Still the choice of a short flange distance guarantees there won’t be any mechanical restrictions limiting the adaptability of lenses from other systems; other restrictions couldn’t be avoided anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 24, 2011 Share #76 Posted January 24, 2011 You can only optimize microlens shifting for one position of the exit pupil, implying it will be suboptimal for all the others. That’s inevitable and it might place a restriction on lenses that are easily adaptable. M lenses can be adapted to MFT bodies, for example, but there are known issues with wide-angle lenses – c’est la vie. Still the choice of a short flange distance guarantees there won’t be any mechanical restrictions limiting the adaptability of lenses from other systems; other restrictions couldn’t be avoided anyway. hmm thanks so what would be the limits on the operational range to microlenses Given perhaps adverse limits to microlens design, is there then still some advantage to longer throw (near telecentric) lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 24, 2011 Share #77 Posted January 24, 2011 From Middle Format area: - touch screen - LV from CCD Phase One IQ180 Announced Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 24, 2011 Share #78 Posted January 24, 2011 would it be helped by focussing somewhere near the intended focus zone? Sure it would help. That technique was already used with the Contax AX, back then. This rough manual prefocusing also ensures that lenses using internal focusing will (almost) behave as they should. But it only goes to show that shifting the sensor is not the complete AF solution people are looking for. More often than not you will have to manually carry the AF to the point where it knows its way. And this kind of AF is still basically at odds with modern, internally focusing lenses. It is just one of those ultimately misguided ideas looking so attractive that they continue to haunt us year after year. Someone should shoot it with a silver bullet, drive a wooden stake through its heart just to be sure, and burn it for good measure. That should put an end to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 24, 2011 Share #79 Posted January 24, 2011 ... I shoot interiors for a living and this is no different to me with my 5D and a 18/4 Distagon on it, except I dont have MF assist on it which I would early love. Riley, Have a look at the 5D MkII, which has Live View that offers up to 10 times magnification for precise focussing on any part of the image. I never thought that Live View would be of any interest/use to me when I bought my 5D MkII but it's a revelation for tripod-based macro photography so I'd guess it'd be just as useful for interiors. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 24, 2011 Share #80 Posted January 24, 2011 Riley, Have a look at the 5D MkII, which has Live View that offers up to 10 times magnification for precise focussing on any part of the image. I never thought that Live View would be of any interest/use to me when I bought my 5D MkII but it's a revelation for tripod-based macro photography so I'd guess it'd be just as useful for interiors. Pete. yeah I know what you mean, but then theres those canon wides this time around I re-invested in 4/3rds and its working well for me so far next time who knows 5DIII should be out in a year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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