georg Posted February 17, 2011 Share #121 Posted February 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) The same story again... Why is everyone so fascinated about stuffing standard components in a Leica to make it cheaper? There are many cheaper, well-working cameras out there. What we need is a serious alternative in design, manufacturing and technology - just like they do with their lenses. A Sony-sensor in the EVIL? Like in the X1? Propably a generation behind their own offerings within a few months? Why not just buying a cheaper Sony Alpha-EVIL then? Leica needs a partner who actually cares (needs?) about Leica, not some anonymous giant who considers Leica a low-volume customer at best. Problems with sensors? Deal with it in the own cameras and those from Nikon first, than the others. Special wishes from Leica (remember improved offset microlenses which made the M9 possible and still has the shortest flange distance for any FF-sensor)? Of course, when it fits into the own portfolio... A Leica camera has to stand out, offer something unique and that won't be possible with standard components stuffed into a body with a red dot - despite the economic success of Panaleicas. I don't know if they can stitch sensor for FF/30x45mm-size and the pixel-pitch is 8.25µm (12MP FF) but the rest is impressive: ARRI ALEV-III, engineered by ARRI and Partners, made by Cypress Semiconductor. A CMOS-sensor which runs up to 60fps and offers 14 (!!!) stops of dynamic range (with real 16bit output by combination of two 14bit DACs) even at 3200ASA and more "filmic" images than any digital acquisition technology before - no need to stick with Kodak Full-Frame CCDs, IMHO. Here's a comparison with what Sony (the opponent of ARRI thought they make it the simple-way: buy technology from the "specialist" Sony - they don't have a chance right now and try to keep up with their own development) came up with in comparison: http://www.fletch.com/images/783_1_SensitivityComparison.img_assist_custom-785x381.jpg Here's what latitude it offers in comparison to a 7D (highlight latitude also limited by heavy compression but the 7D even runs 2 1/3EV slower): Alexa vs 7d latitude tests on Vimeo So when I dream of a Leica EVIL, I dream of an Alexa (which also offers the highest quality EVF on the market) as a still photography camera - not some rebadged Panasonic or Sony. Anybody wants to dream with me? And by the way, the current CEO of Leica was CEO of ARRI - let's hope they're still friends ;-) The downside? We propably won't get video functionality ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Hi georg, Take a look here The R solution - more details. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jerry_R Posted February 17, 2011 Share #122 Posted February 17, 2011 I very rarely read rumours sites because of the rubbish (like this) that's posted on them. Pete, this whole thread is big rummors discussion too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 17, 2011 Share #123 Posted February 17, 2011 It is obvious that picture doesn't show prototype camera... The same was with first X100 or PEN rumors What are you talking about? There were no X100 rumours; the announcement came as a surprise. And the first thing we saw of what was to become the digital PEN models was an actual prototype on display at photokina 2008. Why you reject active cooling? It’s easy to accept active cooling if there’s a power outlet closer than the length of the cord I guess. Thread about potential, rumored R digital solution, FF EVIL - however we call it - is full of brainstorming, ideas that died, experiments, open queston marks, etc.That causes progress and development. Sure Leica is working on something. We all know about the “R solution” (the little that is known). But that doesn’t mean that just about any hare-brained rumour must be true or that we should forego our ability to sort the wheat from the chaff. What was considered before Sony? Sony? The X1 has a Sony sensor, so Leica must have been in talks with Sony in 2009, if not earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 17, 2011 Share #124 Posted February 17, 2011 ...Anybody wants to dream with me?... Yes i do. Thanks for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted February 17, 2011 Share #125 Posted February 17, 2011 [quote name=georg;1614338ARRI ALEV-III' date=' engineered by ARRI and Partners, made by Cypress Semiconductor. A CMOS-sensor which runs up to 60fps and offers 14 (!!!) stops of dynamic range (with real 16bit output by combination of two 14bit DACs) even at 3200ASA and more "filmic" images than any digital acquisition technology before - no need to stick with Kodak Full-Frame CCDs, IMHO.[/quote] According to the Arri website's "Alexa FAQ", the ALEV-III sensor is 28mm x 18mm with fewer than 7.5 usable megapixels. Sensor cooling is by heat pipes to a radiator and fan. Power consumption of camera and EVF is c. 85w; more if there are motors on the lens. So there's some way to go before it'll be credible in a Leica M. But one can dream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 17, 2011 Share #126 Posted February 17, 2011 Sony? The X1 has a Sony sensor, so Leica must have been in talks with Sony in 2009, if not earlier. Much earlier - the Digilux2 has a Sony sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted February 17, 2011 Share #127 Posted February 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) @giordano They're working on a sensor for 6k output, so half the pixel-pitch. ARRI makes as much cameras in one month (it's 70k$) as Leica does in one day - it might be interesting for them to distribute R&D-costs with someone who isn't a competitor. The heat management is done to assure high IQ and reliability even at 60fps for several hours under extreme conditions - it's a professional camera that HAS to work. This sensor doesn't generate more heat or works less efficient than usual CMOS-designs, it would work with line skipping to keep power consumption down during EVF usage - like all EVIL-cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 18, 2011 Share #128 Posted February 18, 2011 Much earlier - the Digilux2 has a Sony sensor. Yes, but strictly speaking that was a deal between Panasonic and Sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgrafixstop Posted February 19, 2011 Share #129 Posted February 19, 2011 The "R Solution" strikes out - to be successful you need a market (not there), you need the finances (not there) but you need the mindset most of all (definitely not there). Next topic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted February 20, 2011 Share #130 Posted February 20, 2011 The market was there ....leica MISSED it, however they could get it back Shame... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted February 22, 2011 Share #131 Posted February 22, 2011 The market was certainly there I agree...but could Leica have made money from it ! That I very much doubt. In the niche market of R/F digital, Leica can make mistakes, can learn some expensive electronic and optical lessons and still make money. The DSLR market with some very sophisticated competition, would have torn them to pieces IMHO. Leica still make the best lenses and have some time now to learn even more about modern AF technology and with the experience gained from the M8/9 electronics... there could still be a viable Leica DSLR or whatever the latest version of design will be described. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted February 22, 2011 Share #132 Posted February 22, 2011 Ok, rumors for rumors, this is the last one, from Spain... Leica "almost ready" with its mirrorless solution? | Leica News & Rumors Sounds quite strange in respect of official announcements from Leica. I would expect for the mirrorless solution a next generation of EVFs and innovative sensors. But frankly, if it works well with R lenses, even a solution with X1 image quality but 35 mm sensor would be welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan_w Posted February 23, 2011 Share #133 Posted February 23, 2011 build a sensor thin as a film, then connect it to electronics and a batterie small as a film roll, and you will be a rich man (maybe ) This way you can recycle all old R3,4,5,6,7,8,9, but also Nikon F,2,3,4,5,6 and so on ;-) This is not that difficult (except the sensor maybe). But who will do this? They all want to sell their new systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 23, 2011 Share #134 Posted February 23, 2011 This is not that difficult (except the sensor maybe) Actually it's very difficult. You haven't thought it through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfage Posted February 23, 2011 Share #135 Posted February 23, 2011 It is an unfortunate financial reality. I "wish" Leica was able but it's not going to happen. They can't compete with other two big guys at that price point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan_w Posted February 23, 2011 Share #136 Posted February 23, 2011 Actually it's very difficult. You haven't thought it through. of course I haven't When you see what they can put in a cellphone today, I think it should be possible to store all the electronics in a film roll, no? If not now, maybe in some years. I think the biggest deal will be the sensor, I cannot imagine how to get it as thin as film, but ok, maybe a kind of databack like the DMR will do it. We don't need 5 frames per second and live view. Just a crazy idea ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 23, 2011 Share #137 Posted February 23, 2011 The problems are not just those of miniaturisation. If anything that's the simplest part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 23, 2011 Share #138 Posted February 23, 2011 Leica's response to these latest R rumours Leica responds to 'mirrorless camera' stories news - Amateur Photographer Kind of misses the point a bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted February 23, 2011 Share #139 Posted February 23, 2011 Leica's response to these latest R rumours Leica responds to 'mirrorless camera' stories news - Amateur Photographer Kind of misses the point a bit Yes Andy, but it is a rather clever marketing "spin" to use the opportunity to promote the M9! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 23, 2011 Share #140 Posted February 23, 2011 ... Kind of misses the point a bit Yes, it's a bit like spotting a hole in your fence that a mouse could squeeze through but ignoring the fact that the gate's open and a herd of wildebeest is crowding through it. (After sweeping majestically across the plains of course.) Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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