halmanas Posted January 26, 2011 Share #101 Posted January 26, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) You asked a question,"This entire thread is leading me to wonder why do people buy EVIL mirrorless cameras to use manual lenses with them, instead of just using their AF glasses (which are pretty good anyway)" and I tried to answer it. Then you just take cheap shots instead of responding to my answer. We all like Leica products here, you don't have to defend the company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Hi halmanas, Take a look here The R solution - more details. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Mauribix Posted January 26, 2011 Share #102 Posted January 26, 2011 Then you just take cheap shots instead of responding to my answer Wow wow wow... slow down dude, take a deep breath, but please don't let the fire start. I can't see any question posed to me in your post: I use an EVIL camera with old manual focus lenses from Olympus, Nikon, and Tamron using the appropriate adapters because it is hard to find lenses this good made for these cameras and because I hate the lag that seems to be ever present when using the auto-focus and auto-exposure modes. I was delighted to find that I could manually focus a digital camera other than an M9. While this is not a perfect solution, it is better than anything else that I could come up with to use these excellent lenses that I have had laying around for decades. With an M9 you are somewhat limited in the telephoto range. I now have access to my old 500mm mirror lens. With an M9 zoom lenses are off the table. With this EVIL set-up I have the use of my old 43-86mm Nikkor. I also have a couple of Zuiko zooms, but I seldom use them. This is just to explain why some people might choose this solution. It has some advantages as well as some drawbacks. We should all try to keep an open mind. So what's the problem with you man? If you have a question, I'm glad to answer. Please re-read my posts with patience and quietly. But don't bother me with any need for clash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 26, 2011 Share #103 Posted January 26, 2011 ...it is the tool of choice of first rate photographers like Doug Herr and Charlie Chan,it is certainly not a weak link. Read ImageAce's post 87, and then Doug Herr's post 92 - and then read my post again in that context - which is: discussing a DMR or Leica digital SLR with the characteristics of the original R9/DMR but with a FF, same-pixel-pitch (18 Mpixel) sensor. It seems to me that "10 Mpixels is not 18 Mpixels. A 19mm lens cropped to "28mm" is not a 19mm lens. A 135mm f/2.8 lens cropped to "180mm" doesn't provide the same background separation as a true 180 @ f/2.8. The DMR has about the same noise @ ISO 800 as the M9 does at 1600 (same difference as between the M9/M8)" exactly fits into what they said and contradicts it in no way whatsoever. Does it? Nor, for that matter does it contradict anything in lct's post: "It is a niche where photographers are more interested by image quality, cristal clear viewfinder and manual operation...." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 27, 2011 Share #104 Posted January 27, 2011 I'm not fighting you,Andy -of course that would be a gem,but,vaporware vs real cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 27, 2011 Share #105 Posted January 27, 2011 Just to clarify: I do not consider the DMR a weak link. The vast majority of the time my technique is the weak link, but there's always some improvement in the equipment to fantasize about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted January 27, 2011 Share #106 Posted January 27, 2011 Just to clarify: I do not consider the DMR a weak link. The vast majority of the time my technique is the weak link, but there's always some improvement in the equipment to fantasize about. I second that emotion. My R8/DMR gives me what I want. I find the quality of my images, particularly with the 80 & 35 Summilux to be better than either the Canon or Nikon files, with or without a crop. Adan, I disagree strongly about the crop issue. I'm very happy with the crop on my 19R. It gives me the best part of the frame & leaves out the edges, which I don't really want with my portraits. I'll put up the DMR files anytime in relation to my M8 & the M9 files I have shot. Frankly the DMR files feel more natural & you don't have all that weird stuff with the coding & strange crap that I see in many images from the M9. I like the M9 & I enjoy my M8, but I LOVE my DMR. Can't see a reason not to use that kit for my best work. I don't really care about the tech crap. I get what I want with my DMR. I'm not that interested in shooting weird looking images at 3200 iso. I don't have to do it for publication, where frankly. most of the images are crap & nobody cares or can even discern the difference. I did a study with a few friends, cataloging the images used on the front page of the NY Times & in the WSJ. Frankly, most are just down right uninteresting and don't tell much of a story. In fact, more & more of "photojournalism" that get's displayed in NYC papers comes from the public with their P&S. Enough about quality. I love my M2, M3, CL & M8. I enjoy the experience of using these tools. That I prefer a SLR & always have is my preference. There just isn't a better tool than the DMR, IMHO. Would I like Leica to make a better one, absolutely. Until then, I just haven't lost a minute of sleep over this issue. I get what I want now, not just what I need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted February 16, 2011 Share #107 Posted February 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Initial price during co-operation with Kodak was about 3 200 EUR. Now, few sources already confirmed it will be SONY sensor - price is expected only 1 500 EUR less than M9... sonyalpharumors | Home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted February 16, 2011 Share #108 Posted February 16, 2011 Jerry that seems quite logical to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 16, 2011 Share #109 Posted February 16, 2011 Zeiss and Leica vs the rest of the world? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted February 16, 2011 Share #110 Posted February 16, 2011 Now, few sources already confirmed it will be SONY sensor - price is expected only 1 500 EUR less than M9 Or most likely that could be a 1500EUR more profit for Leica Anyway, back to the subject of your link, I hope Leica won't give me any crappy* cmos sensor (at least) on any digital-M in the future. I know that it's not just up to Leica though. *crappy=far far away from a film-like grain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 16, 2011 Share #111 Posted February 16, 2011 Now, few sources already confirmed it will be SONY sensor - price is expected only 1 500 EUR less than M9...sonyalpharumors | Home So Kodak is going to sell their CMOS sensor business? And that’s supposed to have any relevance for a Leica EVIL camera? All CMOS sensors once manufactured by Kodak are discontinued by now; Kodak isn’t even in this business anymore. And all those discontinued sensors were of the small and low-resolution variety – the biggest and highest resolution sensor was the KAC-5000 with 5 million pixels on a 1/1.8" chip. Not quite the kind of sensor a (presumably full-frame) Leica EVIL camera would be made of. That Sony would be the logical and pretty much only option right now has always been obvious; nothing new here. Things may change of course and Leica does take their time, but if they had to make a choice right now the source would have to be Sony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted February 16, 2011 Share #112 Posted February 16, 2011 Initial price during co-operation with Kodak was about 3 200 EUR.... Sorry, I'm confused. Initial price of what? DMR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted February 16, 2011 Share #113 Posted February 16, 2011 Hi Jerry_R! Yes,..- everything indicates that we in the next few years will see exciting new technology on the camera front. Nikon is working on a brand new camera system, which the world apparently has not seen anything similar to before. Sony seems to entirely drop the traditional mirror and a pentaprism, and focuses fully on EVF and their semi-transparent mirror technology. Several people have noticed, that Sony's mysterious new 500mm f / 4 has features / buttons, that can only have been made for working together with the new equally mysterious professional FF EVF camera body that is expected to come. It is quite obvious that Leica does not sit quietly and not working on similar solutions. It's just to start saving money. A lot of money, I guess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted February 16, 2011 Share #114 Posted February 16, 2011 Sorry, I'm confused. Initial price of what? DMR? Here you are: Rumor: Leica EVIL camera for Photokina | Leica News & Rumors We will sooner than later see FF EVIL from different companies. Only question of time. What makes hope for the one from Leica is no AA + microlenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 16, 2011 Share #115 Posted February 16, 2011 Here you are: Rumor: Leica EVIL camera for Photokina | Leica News & Rumors This rumour was posted in May 2010 about a new product that was supposed to be announced at Photokina 2010. But it wasn't. End of rumour. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted February 16, 2011 Share #116 Posted February 16, 2011 This rumour was posted in May 2010 about a new product that was supposed to be announced at Photokina 2010. But it wasn't. End of rumour. No, it isn't end. It is just beginning ;-) There was a prototype, there were issues with Live View, there was delay, there IS (or just was) change of sensor supplier. The only question is what will be delivered, what functionality, parameters, shape, etc. And when and for how much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 16, 2011 Share #117 Posted February 16, 2011 Jerry_R, You must be referring to a different source then because the picture at the link you posted is a mock up using the back of an M2 with a nondescript lens glued to the back door and an X1 round pop-up flash. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 16, 2011 Share #118 Posted February 16, 2011 There was a prototype, there were issues with Live View, there was delay, there IS (or just was) change of sensor supplier. There was nothing but the figment of somebody’s imagination that turned out not to be real (which may be an overly charitable assumption as more likely the perpetrator of the rumour was just pulling everyone’s leg). Which was obvious right from the start since the details of this particular rumour were patently absurd (very small camera but focusing with a moving sensor etc.). If only the people running rumour sites weren’t that clueless and the people frequenting those sites a little less gullible … Btw, even when Leica had actually been working on something like the contraption hinted at by the rumour, it would make no sense to say that “Initial price during co-operation with Kodak was about 3 200 EUR” since it wouldn’t have had a Kodak sensor. There was and is no Kodak sensor that is (a) FF, ( capable of supporting live view, and © doesn’t require active cooling. A Kodak sensor wouldn’t have been considered, even in 2009 or 2010. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted February 17, 2011 Share #119 Posted February 17, 2011 the picture at the link you posted is a mock up using the back of an M2 Come on, do you seriously treat such photos? Have you ever read rumor sites? It is obvious that picture doesn't show prototype camera... The same was with first X100 or PEN rumors There was nothing but the figment of somebody’s imagination that turned out not to be real You can interpret it this way ;-) patently absurd (very small camera but focusing with a moving sensor etc.). If only the people running rumour sites weren’t that clueless and the people frequenting those sites a little less gullible … You really treat it more seriously, than me ;-) But it doesn't mean we should forget it, not talk about it, not link it. There was and is no Kodak sensor that is (a) FF, ( capable of supporting live view, and © doesn’t require active cooling. So what..? There are solutions with sensors not supporting live view, but delivering live view, medium format ones. Why you reject active cooling? Why are you having your both feet so hardly one the ground... I have general feeling, no, I am almost sure - that if people at Fuji would keep their feet on the ground so heavily, would eliminate anything that sounds unreasonable - we would never see X100... Thread about potential, rumored R digital solution, FF EVIL - however we call it - is full of brainstorming, ideas that died, experiments, open queston marks, etc. That causes progress and development. Keeping feet on the ground hard - can cause stagnation and bring lost opportunities instead. A Kodak sensor wouldn’t have been considered, even in 2009 or 2010. Maybe. What was considered before Sony? * * * Why at all LEICA never asked officially users, buyers - what they really would like regarding FF EVIL... Like Fuji guys did on their web page... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 17, 2011 Share #120 Posted February 17, 2011 Come on, do you seriously treat such photos? Have you ever read rumor sites? It is obvious that picture doesn't show prototype camera... The same was with first X100 or PEN rumors ... Please re-read my post. I said that you must be referring to another source ... I very rarely read rumours sites because of the rubbish (like this) that's posted on them. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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