atufte Posted November 11, 2010 Share #1 Posted November 11, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I took some pictures of a well known rockstar, and yesterday i got a mail from her management and they asked me what i would charge for these images, with all rights included, it's 3-5 pictures and after being told by a safe source that the artist think this is some of the best images ever captured of her i think it's even more important to find the right price for these pictures. Sorry but i can not reveal the name or the pictures of the artist at this time, but yes they were all shot with a Leica M9... All pointers are gladly welcomed... Thx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 Hi atufte, Take a look here I need some help.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
atufte Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share #2 Posted November 11, 2010 Anyone...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraz Posted November 11, 2010 Share #3 Posted November 11, 2010 I would offer the pictures for free in return for right to photograph 2 or 3 events of your choosing of her performing exclusively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 12, 2010 Share #4 Posted November 12, 2010 Even more important than the price would be prominent "photographs by A.Tufte" in all publications imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted November 12, 2010 Share #5 Posted November 12, 2010 Hi Alexander, I hope you get some good responses, but the M9 forum is so gear-oriented and your question is very business-oriented. It's possible, or perhaps likely, that the people with good answers aren't reading this forum. You will likely find better answers at a forum more oriented toward the photography business, perhaps run by an association of professional photographers, and hopefully with some of them already doing photography of well-known musicians. Pricing for a situation like this is some mix of the going rate for similar photos (taking into account the subject's reknown), this subject's anticipated need for these specific photos, alternate markets for the same photos, your reputation as an artist, and your own personal "happy price" — the price that would make you happy with the transaction, all things considered. This is assuming that no pricing was worked out in advance. Going rates are determined by the relevant marketplace, whether that be local, national or international. Cradoc's Fotoquote software attempts to mirror the market and give a rate based on the usage. The greater the usage rights, the greater the price. The reply to pricing inquiries should usually be a question as to the intended usage. The pricing should then reflect the intended usage. And the sale should specify, in writing, the usage rights being sold. By "all rights" the buyer probably means an outright buyout of the copyright — which from your perspective should be the most expensive option. But you can instead retain the copyright and sell specific usage rights for a defined time period. This way the photos can generate further income for you later. Sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted November 12, 2010 Share #6 Posted November 12, 2010 Photo credits in publications and rights to future access usually have very little value and are difficult to enforce. Real cash money has specific and immediate value, and pays your bills now. Photo credits can easily be negotiated as part of the deal, in addition to the cash price. They are asking for a price and it would be unprofessional to offer the photos for free or for a photo credit. Set a fair price, the market rate, whatever that may be, and anything else is gravy on top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted November 12, 2010 Share #7 Posted November 12, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Alexander-- Maybe re-post here or in the customer forum with a more descriptive title? "Need pricing help" "Need professional pricing guidance" "Help! Celebrity pricing pointers" Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 12, 2010 Share #8 Posted November 12, 2010 Hello Alexander, Congratulations. This is quite an achievement. From my perspective I would more worry about credit for the pucture than getting the most in the way of money. Also, you are considering forever selling your rights to your pictures, something I would not necessarily do personally. I would think carefully before terminating my rights to my own work. Don't undervalue your work. It has been my experience people who try to estimate the value of what they have done are more likely to undervalue than overvalue themselves. Given the above you now have to find the reasonable range for pictures of the type you have taken in the market for them that exists. Then price yourself @ somewhat more than the ammount for a good picture. Remember they have told you you are better than good. Please do not go overboard though. Also @ the same time don't be self negative. Balance is the key to sucess. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enboe Posted November 13, 2010 Share #9 Posted November 13, 2010 O.K., maybe it's the approaching holiday season. If I were in your position, and did not need the money for any true needs, then I would offer to give them permission to use the images in publication and web in exchange for two things: 1) Invitation and credentials to shoot again in the future, and 2) A donation made to a charity of their choosing for the amount they think the photos are worth. I have a friend who routinely shoots a famous 1980's group, and has built a great friendship. My friend gets invited to any and all shows he wants to attend, and routinely gets travel expenses comp'ed as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 13, 2010 Share #10 Posted November 13, 2010 As the saying goes, anything free is worth exactly what you paid for it. Don't set your value as a photographer at "zero" by charging "zero". Especially if the artist thinks you are something special. As someone with some selling and licensing experience (but this is informal advice, follow at your own risk!! - YMMV, etc etc), I'd say, first set the usage terms. 1. retain you own usage rights in any case - if you want to publish a book of your work in 30 years, including those pix, you want to still have the right to do so. You don't want to have to buy them back from her. Get that in the contract (and DO get a contract, even a simple one). 2. Bear in mind that they probably want to be able to distribute those shots for publicity. How will you feel in 2 years when one of your shots ends up as a magazine cover (a handout from her) - with no further payment to you? 3. Fame has become currency in our Facebook culture - except that I'll bet she charges people to see HER concerts, nei? A good exchange is going to include BOTH fame and fortune. I'd recommend: Ask €500 per photo to grant them a perpetual license and redistribution rights (freebie handouts to magazines and newspapers and concert promoters, etc.) - WITH mandatory credit**. You retain the personal right to use the pictures for self-promotion (including books and exhibitions) or grant such right to your book publisher. Effectively - joint ownership between you and her. If the local market suggests some different exact price, feel free to substitute €250 or €1,000 per picture as appropriate. If they counteroffer with a different price or a lump sum (say, €1,800 for all 5), go with your gut. (Details like this are why photographers hire agents, who know the market and know how negotiations work.) **Note that while you can ask for a mandatory credit, unless you or someone you hire (that agent again) polices every publication in the world, this is hard to enforce. If she gives a concert in Japan (or here in Denver), how will you track down every Tokyo or Denver newspaper or magazine or poster to check? But at least it was agreed to. When I was editing entertainment pages, I was pretty rigorous in including credits by name even on promotional handout pictures (and so were our picture editors) - but not all publications are that careful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted November 13, 2010 Share #11 Posted November 13, 2010 I see you are based in Norway. Prices vary enormously from country to country. I would suggest speaking to someone at a magazine or newspaper to ask their standard rates for such an assignment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atufte Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted November 13, 2010 Thanks Guys for all the pointers, i think i will follow Andy's tip, since it seems fair for both parts, but i think i will sell the right, for let's say 5 years at the time, i will not ever sell the right's to any of my pictures with a unlimted time period...if not as Andy suggest we can share the rights to use the pictures, then i could sign a contract if the payment is right (but i still think it's safer with a few years at time) Thx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted November 14, 2010 Share #13 Posted November 14, 2010 Thanks Guys for all the pointers, i think i will follow Andy's tip, since it seems fair for both parts, but i think i will sell the right, for let's say 5 years at the time, ... Roll forward to 2016 or 2017. 1. do you really want to spend time confirming (somehow) that she is holding up her end of the agreement and has stopped using your photo(s)? 2. if you found a copy of one of the photos in a publication how would you confirm that it hadn't been agreed by her before the end of the 5-year period? 3. are you sure that she'd be able to contact you after 5 years to renew the agreement? By agreeing the contract in 5 year blocks you would be putting all the hard work on yourself. If you were part of a larger organisation who employs staff to look after such things then that might not be a problem but as an individual, at best, you would restrict the amount of time available for your photography so as to administer the agreement. Perhaps an alternative approach would be to grant perpetual rights but retain the right to review and renegotiate on a five-yearly basis. This way if she hits superstardom you will be in a good position to obtain suitable payment based on current market value at the time, you should be able to agree a higher up front fee because you're offering perpetual rights, and the agreement takes care of itself until something changes. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 14, 2010 Share #14 Posted November 14, 2010 Good ideas here. 1) Your reputation is more important that the (little) money you'll get. I would give it for free against # 2 & 3 but it's just me. 2) Invitation and credentials to shoot again in the future. 3) Perpetual rights or nothing IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted November 14, 2010 Share #15 Posted November 14, 2010 Ask Steve Huff. He shooted concert(s) with Seal. Could be on a Leica/friendship base, but who knows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted November 15, 2010 Share #16 Posted November 15, 2010 Good ideas here.1) Your reputation is more important that the (little) money you'll get. Little money? Why would he get little? He should get a lot! Get fair market value, or don't bother. Free photos are for family and friends, not for well-known rock stars. Get a reputation as the guy whose photos are expensive and worth it, not as the guy who gives them away for "credentials". A photo credit is a requirement, not a payment. Shooting again in the future is not a payment either. If you're good, you'll get invited & paid to shoot again in the future. If you give away work now, you may get invited to shoot again in the future and be expected to give it away then too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted November 15, 2010 Share #17 Posted November 15, 2010 Details like this are why photographers hire agents, who know the market and know how negotiations work. Words of wisdom there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atufte Posted November 24, 2010 Author Share #18 Posted November 24, 2010 Thx guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 3, 2011 Thx guys Hi, What did come out of it? Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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