Advise kindly asked: Concert photography

[bhauck]

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Hi guys,

 

I recently happen to be at a lot of concerts. Usually the light conditions are difficult. I am trying to take some pictures, but so far I am not really satisfied with the results. Is there any kind of "best practice" for this kind of situation? I am using a 35mm summicron. Would one stop more make a difference? Typically I shoot wide open and I also have to push ISO. What would be a good focal length? I have the feeling, that 35mm are to short (Just curious, I wont buying another focal length any time soon) What is the maximal exposure time you use, if you have for example a moving singer. I have the feeling that it is not possible to capture moving musicians.

 

So any hints for me?

 

Kindly,

Bernd

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[stevem7]

I would say to use a 50 and 90 for concerts. A 35 may be a bit wide unless you are really up close, and even then, its wide. I'd try a 50...especially a Summilux or Nocti for the best (most unique) results.

[Doc Henry]

Bernd,

For me and as Steve, 2 lenses (35 and 90mm) to avoid being overloaded

Please look at this thread :

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/119807-african-evening.html

Henry

[hvacigar]

There are two things I can tell you from my experience (mostly with a 5DMii, but a little with my M3, and hopefully soon with my M9 once I get it) concerning low light shooting.

 

1. High ISO noise is ALWAYS better than blurry images...unless the blur is artistic or intentional. So kick up that ISO and buy Nik's set of digital filters. DFine 2 does a good job with the noise. Not a perfect solution, but good enough. A noisy/sharp image is better than a less-noisy/blurry throw away.

 

2. Don't enter the venue unless you have something less than f/2.0. I would rather shoot with a CV 50mm 1.1 than with any Leica f/2 or f/2.5 in this situation. It will get you those extra stops needed to freeze as much motion and camera shake as possible.

 

Aside from that I definitely agree with the other two on the range. You are looking for 50-90mm of range here (depending on where you are sitting). Remember with the higher ranges, 75-90, that camera shaking really starts to show at the shutter speeds you will be using.

[luigi bertolotti]

Agree with the above post: any stop under f2 is A LOT useful ; imho, best concerts takings are often for long lenses, and probably the Summilux 75 1,4 could be the top: personally (not having it ... ) I sometimes used my venerable Summarex 85 f 1,5; the new CV 75 1,8 could also be an interesting tool for this environment, so as the Nokton 1,1.... I'd even thought to buy it evaluating that a cropped 50 frame at 1,1 - 1/60 is probably better than a uncropped 85 frame at 1,5 - 1/30 (even if the Summarex is surprisingly stable keeping its big barrel in hand)

[chris_tribble]

If you can't get close, then a Leica's the wrong tool. Where will you be shooting? If you can, then work the sound check or the rehearsal - the Leica's fine then - for this kind of work I use 28 + 50 + 90. If you're having to shoot from the back ot the hall then you either need a cropped sensor DSLR (NikCanon) + as fast a zoom as you can get (70-200 2.8) or a full frame + longer lens. I like the 5D + 300 2.8. Liveview allows you to shoot silently. Check: Jazz Scene Europe at King's Place, London. This was a mix of Leica wide + Canon long - but all during sound check. Performance is generally really hard to work unless it's NOISY.

[topoxforddoc]

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Bernd,

 

I shoot a lot of concerts with both Ms and my DMRs. I do shoot with a 35 lux, but only when I'm really close (ie 5-6 feet away). Otherwise, it's a 50 cron, 80 lux and 180 cron for me on a DMR. As a general rule 1/60th at f4 at ASA 1600 (or combinations around that light level) works out for most things.

[faraz]

Some very interesting feedback. Although, I am surprised about the lack of recommendations on wide angles. I am usually up close (front row for example) and even a 50mm is too long. Also I find the speed of the lens to be not very useful atleast for the concerts I have attended recently (eagles, top petty and roger waters coming up), in fact I have had to stop down my noctilux or summilux lenses down to f4.0 or even f5.6 at times to ensure the highlights are not overblown. I am also going to try HDR with bracketing the next time around to see if I can overcome the blown highlights that way.

[Anguish]

Lighting frequently changes and waiting for the spotlight to come on can be a good strategy

[Reds]

f/2 should be ok for better lit venues. If not so good - expose for the face and let the blacks go black!

 

I try and keep shutter speed around 1/125 min, or up to 1/500 if lighting allows, to freeze motion.

 

If you're at the front, then a 50 should be a good length if you only have one lens.

 

If the lighting is dismal then faster glass is a bonus and kick up the ISOs. Although focusing can get a bit lary in these conditions.

 

I took my first concert with my summux 50 last Sunday. Pics at www.nicks-photos.com Music Photography by Nick Redman

(Level 42). I also used my 90/2 at a Local Natives gig last year and got some great shots, but I'm not as accurate with focusing that !! Best of luck :-)

[freusen]

Hi Bernd,

 

I shoot a lot of concerts with only a f1.4/35mm and a f1.4/75mm Summilux. For me that's enough,

but if you want a really wide-angle lens, you can go for the new f1.4/21mm or f1.4/24mm Summilux.

 

Best Regards,

 

FrankR

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Long time ago... M3, Dual-range Summicron.

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[gib_robinson]

If you can't get close, then a Leica's the wrong tool. Where will you be shooting? If you can, then work the sound check or the rehearsal - the Leica's fine then - for this kind of work I use 28 + 50 + 90. If you're having to shoot from the back ot the hall then you either need a cropped sensor DSLR (NikCanon) + as fast a zoom as you can get (70-200 2.8) or a full frame + longer lens. I like the 5D + 300 2.8. Liveview allows you to shoot silently. Check: Jazz Scene Europe at King's Place, London. This was a mix of Leica wide + Canon long - but all during sound check. Performance is generally really hard to work unless it's NOISY.

 

+1 for Chris's recommendations.

 

When I photograph plays or concerts I take both an SLR and a Leica and make sure to arrange good seating. I use a Canon 1DIV, with an 85 1.2, and often a 135 f/2 and a 50 1.2).

 

With my M8 -- now M9 -- I bring 28, 35 and 75 'crons). I wish I had a Summilux 50, but I don't. I can use higher ISO's with the Canon. With Leica, I try to stay under 1600. Usually I can.

 

--Gib

[Guest WPalank]

Bernd,

Your thread came at a perfect time for me as I was about to ask the same question. I recently kinda bullsh*tted my way into getting a photo-pass (via the bands PR person) to shoot this group in a venue that doesn't allow anything but very small cameras:

YouTube - The Heavy - "How You Like Me Now?" 1/18 Letterman (TheAudioPerv.com)

 

The manager was thrilled I used the same camera (Leica) as the deceased Jimmy Marshall.

[blakley]

I've shot a lot of concerts with the M8 and M9, almost exclusively with a 50/1.4 Summilux ASPH.

 

I generally shoot at ISO 640 and f/1.4, and adjust shutter speed to suit the lighting; you can see lots of examples here. Concert lighting can be surprisingly bright; you have to be careful not to OVER expose to avoid blowing out performers' faces. Backgrounds will be very dark in most situations.

 

To use a 50, or even a 75, you need to be close to the action. Generally this means close to the stage, but on occasion you can get lucky even far back from the stage. Here Terri Nunn of Berlin ventured out into the crowd & I was in the right spot...

 

[chris_tribble]

Interesting what we interpret as concert. A lot of the time I have to work in whisper-quiet environments where even an M7 is too loud. All you can do to catch this kind of image is to work with long lenses - and here the 5D2 in Live-View is actually amazing. When you can work the rehearsal space a completely kind of relationship is possible and the M9 comes into its own.

 

The rehearsal set here is almost entirely M9: London: King's Place Festival - rehearsals

 

The performances were shot mainly with Canon 5D2 + 70-200 2.8 and 300 f2.8: London: King's Place Festival '09

 

Horses for courses, as the saying goes...

[rickp13]

2 cents worth from my first concert in a small club environment - Madison Violet from Canada at the Stage Club, Hamburg:

 

• when i ordered the tickets, i got prior 'approval' to bring and use a camera
  
• in a small club environment, where moving around is difficult/impossible, get there EARLY to find a reasonable position
  
• yes to 1.4 lenses if possible, yes to 35 and 50 or 75
  
• aside from metering and handholding a short tele, the big problem seems to be to catch the right expression(s)
  

the example is almost full frame, at 1/60 iso 800, probably f2 on a 75mm summilux. if i had a second chance, i would have added a 35 or 50 in my pocket, and pushed harder for a spot closer to the stage.

 

cheers

 

rick

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[Overgaard]

Perhaps of some help, this is an article I wrote about shooting stage performances, mainly for editorial use (where you will seldom use an overview photo of the stage but mostly focus on one known person on stage at a time)

 

leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - The Story Behind That Picture - How to shoot rock concerts and other stage performances

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[skinnfell]

I used to do a lot of concert photography, both with slrs, Dslrs and Ms.

while this is one venue where I prefer Dslrs, the M9 is also a pretty good performer.

 

Concerts are usually pretty well lit, but only in a very small area. If you use auto exposure, the camera will most likely be 'fooled' by the amount of black background, and try to overexpose your images.

 

So manual is the way to go. I usually try to photograph the light instead of the action (sounds silly I know). But since most concerts where the light levels vary a lot I try to find a good exposure for a certain light, and wait for something interesting to happen while in that kind of light. For example this can be a sweeping spotlight, or pyrotechics or whatever, or even the background light.

 

Focus is harder but then I try again pre-focus and either wait for that area to be in focus OR move myself to the same effect. Not easy, but with a little practise you get the grip of it. Try to shoot even if focus isnt perfect. Its a lot of hit and miss involved here.

 

As far as lenses, i would use 50 or 90. f/2.8 is sufficient in most places and also desirable because of DOF. 35 or wider could be done but then you have to get VERY close to the action. It depends on the venue and how close they will let you get.

 

Leave the flash at home, it is irritating to both artists and audience.

Bring at least one set of earplugs!

 

It helps to talk to the venue owners beforehand, a lot of established artists are not too happy about photographers and you dont want to be embarassed in front of the crowd.

 

I usually wont shoot anything for the first two-three songs, if possible. This is so I can get a feel for the light levels and also how much movement there is on the stage.

 

Finally, try to stay discrete, dont ruin the experience for the paying audience, take a break from the photography and enjoy some of the music too.

 

Good luck!

[pklein]

For concerts, a 1 degree spot meter can be a very useful tool. Measure a brightly-lit face and open up one stop (for caucasian skin, less or none at all for darker skin). This can save a lot of "shoot-chimp-adjust" maneuvers. Concerts usually have brightly-lit people in huge pools of darkness, and will "fool" many in-camera meters. Sometimes the brighness range is too great, and you have to choose between highlight and shadow detail.

 

Fast lenses are often necessary. But, remember that many lenses are better a stop or two down from maximum, and you get more depth of field.

 

The old rule that 1/focal length is the minimum shutter speed for sharp handheld pictures can be helpful. And everyone needs to know the tradeoffs of varous ISOs on their camera.

 

For me, with the M8, my parameters are very similar to what they were with film. I try to keep the shutter speed at 1/125 or above if at all possible. With my 90 Summicron (pre-aspheric), f/2.8 is the best compromise between speed, quality and depth of field. I shoot at ISO 320 if I can, and 640 if I can't.

 

If I need more speed, the first thing I will do is open up my lens. The second thing I do depends on the circumstances. Sometimes I'll up the ISO to 1250 (particularly if I'm going to convert to B&W) Sometimes I'll lower the shutter speed.

 

With an M9, your usable ISO probably goes up 2/3 stop to a full stop. With an aspheric lens, you may not have any qualms about shooting wide open, but beware of the more rapid apparent fall-off of focus compared to a classical-formula lens.

 

Below is with an M8, 90 Summicron, 1/90, f/2.8, ISO 640.

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More here, some with film or OT equipment:

Music - a set on Flickr

http://www.sonatina.org/musicians/index.html

 

 

--Peter