Robinyuill Posted October 18, 2010 Share #1 Posted October 18, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi there. I'm contemplating a 21mm lens for my M8. I have seen a 21 f2.8 M elmarit pre asp or a 21 f3.4 Super angulon. I know that the S angulon fits but you can't meter with it. They are both about the same price, £800. I like the older lens but thats maybe just sentiment. Any one offer any advice? On another matter I have had my M8 away to Leica for a new sensor since August. Anyone know how long they are taking for repairs. The dealer says Leica was backed up due to Photokina event. Regards to all. Robin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Hi Robinyuill, Take a look here 21mm lens question.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ronazle Posted October 18, 2010 Share #2 Posted October 18, 2010 If you can overlook the speed, I would (did) buy the 21mm Zeiss Biogon F:/4.5. Combined with the Zeiss CSC filter it is a really great lens. The filter takes care of your IR and IR correction related problems. Unlike many or most things I buy, I have no regrets on the flawless Biogon. regards, ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 18, 2010 Share #3 Posted October 18, 2010 Robin-- Check Erwin Puts' reviews of the two lenses. I think it's generally agreed that the Super-Angulon isn't as crisp as people prefer today. The 21/2.8 pre-aspheric is very good across the whole field except in the corners--and with the M8, the corners are cut off by the cropped sensor, so that flaw is meaningless. I don't know why the two should be the same price, since the later lens 1) is better optically; and 2) meters fine on the M8. Perhaps the Super-Angulon has a mystique since it's a Schneider design? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 19, 2010 Share #4 Posted October 19, 2010 Yes, Super Angulon HAS a mystique of its own... , and I can understand that the 2 above lenses can have a similar quotation (it can depend on conditions... a FINE SA 3,4, with hood and perfect glass, is a "nice to have"), but agree that the Elmarit is to be preferred as a user item. Imho, the old Super Angulon f4 is even nicer... and it has by far the worst performances of all... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 19, 2010 Share #5 Posted October 19, 2010 IF - you may ever move to an uncropped sensor and shoot color, be aware that the Super-Angulons (f/4 or f/3.4) are not supported by either coding or menu choice, and show some strong red/purple-edge color problems on the M9 (same for the Zeiss ZM 21 f/4.5). The Elmarit pre-ASPH does much better since Leica still supports it both with coding and in the lens-select menu. For B&W only the SAs work OK, and the M9 metering with a 3.4 was surprisingly not as far off as I expected (just dial in about one stop minus compensation). (I don't know how the SAs do on M8s, but with no way to code for UV/IR filter use (meaning either purple grays or green corners), I suspect they may be "B&W only" lenses on that body as well.) Add to that the metering and the extra half-stop in speed, and the Elmarit is much more practical - especially at the same price. I do appreciate the romance - and size - of the SA, though. If I shot film, my ideal would be a chrome M4 + chrome 21 f/3.4, 35 f/2, 90 f/2.8. But for digital, the SA is simply not a friendly lens. (EDIT: image made with 21 f/3.4 SA on M9. White line defines M8 crop, but that may not be representative how the SA performs color-wise on the M8 - different sensor and different firmware corrections than the M9). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/134437-21mm-lens-question/?do=findComment&comment=1476263'>More sharing options...
roguewave Posted October 19, 2010 Share #6 Posted October 19, 2010 Robin the Zeiss Biogon f2.8 is a far superior lens than either the older Elmarit or the SA. It is very close in price to what you are looking to spend. I purchased this lens from a long standing member of the Forum & I can't say enough good things about it. I know several other Forum members that use this lens & the results are head & shoulders above the SA & the older elmarit. Well worth the higher price. I use mine with my M8, M2 & M3. It is superb, particularly wide open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggi Posted October 20, 2010 Share #7 Posted October 20, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) My choice would be the 21/2.8, if you don't need the shift option of the Super-Angulon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted October 20, 2010 Share #8 Posted October 20, 2010 I have a like new boxed Zeiss Biogon M 21 mm 2.8 - a real "wow" lens that has been coded and adjusted for M8 by DAG with hood and a 28 Voigtlander finder that I'm thinking about trading for a good 28 Elmarit version IV. You wouldn't happen to have a 28 you want to trade, would you? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
croweatr Posted October 21, 2010 Share #9 Posted October 21, 2010 The 21mm/2.8 Biogon is an amazing lens. I've taken so many beautiful shots with mine - and I'm never even remotely concerned about sharpness or flare. Sadly, it has to go (just listed on flea-bay) because it's just been sitting around since I got my 28mm Zeiss and 15mm CV lenses. Interestingly, the 28mm is as sharp but doesn't have the lovely bitey contrast of the 21mm. By comparison, the older Leica & Schneider optics are overpriced, more prone to flare and not as sharp. IMHO, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted October 21, 2010 Share #10 Posted October 21, 2010 +1 on the ZM21/2.8 Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted October 21, 2010 Share #11 Posted October 21, 2010 Have you done any post processing on this picture? If not, what setting did you set in the lens choice meny? I tried a Super-Angulon on my M9, but I got much heavier vignetting than you have in your picture. IF - you may ever move to an uncropped sensor and shoot color, be aware that the Super-Angulons (f/4 or f/3.4) are not supported by either coding or menu choice, and show some strong red/purple-edge color problems on the M9 (same for the Zeiss ZM 21 f/4.5). The Elmarit pre-ASPH does much better since Leica still supports it both with coding and in the lens-select menu. For B&W only the SAs work OK, and the M9 metering with a 3.4 was surprisingly not as far off as I expected (just dial in about one stop minus compensation). (I don't know how the SAs do on M8s, but with no way to code for UV/IR filter use (meaning either purple grays or green corners), I suspect they may be "B&W only" lenses on that body as well.) Add to that the metering and the extra half-stop in speed, and the Elmarit is much more practical - especially at the same price. I do appreciate the romance - and size - of the SA, though. If I shot film, my ideal would be a chrome M4 + chrome 21 f/3.4, 35 f/2, 90 f/2.8. But for digital, the SA is simply not a friendly lens. (EDIT: image made with 21 f/3.4 SA on M9. White line defines M8 crop, but that may not be representative how the SA performs color-wise on the M8 - different sensor and different firmware corrections than the M9). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 21, 2010 Share #12 Posted October 21, 2010 No post-processing of vignetting (just WB and overall exposure). Setting was AUTO lens detection, which, with an uncoded 21, of course meant NO lens detection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinyuill Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted October 23, 2010 Thanks for all the useful info. I am going to get a loan of a couple of lenses and try them out and decide then. Still like the lure of the Super Angulon though..... Regards all. Robin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSU Posted October 25, 2010 Share #14 Posted October 25, 2010 Yet another vote for the Zeiss ZM 21/2.8, it is superb. But I must take issue with the naysayers of the 21/3.4 Super Angulon. I code mine as the 18/3.8 Super Elmar and it seems fine on my M8.2 for color, for B&W it is simply amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photomusicfreak Posted January 2, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 2, 2011 If you can overlook the speed, I would (did) buy the 21mm Zeiss Biogon F:/4.5. Combined with the Zeiss CSC filter it is a really great lens. The filter takes care of your IR and IR correction related problems. Unlike many or most things I buy, I have no regrets on the flawless Biogon. regards, ron I really appreciate this info as I'm getting a Zeiss Biogon 4.5/21mm and was contemplating CornerFix. But I take it from what you've said that one simple filter could take care of the red shift i.e. that I won't require CornerFix. Is that right? Thanking you in advance, Neil in Canada I'm new to the forum and am having difficulty using it. If you want you could reply to my email address: njbphotomusic@gmail.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 2, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 2, 2011 As a low-cost option you could consider the Kobalux 21/2.8 (also sold under the names of Avenon and Pasoptik). It's an excellent performer, superb build and has the added benefit of being excellent for infrared work. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipotto Posted January 4, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 4, 2011 I am very happy with my 21mm pre-asph elmarit. On the M8 It's sharp from f/3.2 and has pleasing bokeh and colour. I used to own the Kobalux 21/2.8, but never got on with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mc_k Posted January 5, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 5, 2011 another vote for the SA 21/Four Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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