A Farewell to Film

[andybarton]

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When I can no longer buy film (I will be dead before that happens, I suspect) I will no longer be interested in making photographs. All that smelly chemistry and fiddling around with spools in the dark is an integral part of the process for me. Sitting staring at a screen is what I do for my day job and the older I get, the less inclined I am to do it for fun too.

 

Call me a luddite if you like - frankly I don't care - but I do not see a digital camera being an acceptable complete replacement for a film one. Useful when you want to shoot something and pass it on to others quickly, but no fun at all.

[SJP]

I agree. Once you have seen the wonders of a good Daguerrotype, nothing is quite the same again. Such a pity that their limitations in other ways hastened their demise.

I think the boiling mercury is one of the main obstacles. OK if you are as mad as a hatter but not advisable for most of us:D

 

I guess you could mimic a Daguerrotype on digital by using a silver toner/ink.

[pgk]

All that smelly chemistry and fiddling around with spools in the dark is an integral part of the process for me.

I feel the exact opposite. I've spent far too much time in smelly darkrooms and messing around with chemistry and I don't miss it one bit. Perhaps its familiarity/boredom with a process but digital whilst tying to a computer is substantially less restrictive IMHO.

[250swb]

If I understand you correctly, applying the idiosyncrasies of Tri-X to digital images is a sign of liberation of the artistic photographer from the constraints imposed by the digital medium.

 

Why, then, has it to be the artifacts of Tri-X and not a novel kind of artifact? Or, if it does not have to be a new one, why not use PS to draw van Gogh style brush strokes on your immaculate digital image?

 

Constraints are not imposed by the digital medium, constraints are imposed by people. It doesn't need any new rules (like all images have to be clean), the old ones are good enough and can evolve. The worst thing is to treat a new medium as the junior partner or be scared of it usurping a medium that its replaced already (for all intents and purposes). Creating artificial rules now really is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Mocking the use of grain (or grain effects) isn't going to save film any day soon.

 

The grain of Tri-X is just an example, but it has its place in the photographic language already, so why not use it? Familiar features smooth the transition from the predominance of film to digital much the same as colour did in the transition of Impressionism into Post-Impressionism. Novel artifacts are more problematic, its like inventing your own language, who else is going to be bothered to learn it? The grit and contrast of film grain has 100 years of use behind it.

 

Why not use van Gogh brush strokes over an immaculate digital image? Well, you ask that as if its a challenge, but why not if it improves it? Its not for me, I'm a photographer not a painter or mixed media artist, but there is nothing to be worried about if you want to give it a go in Photoshop, after all, whats the worst that could happen...you get laughed at!

 

Steve

[pop]

I think the boiling mercury is one of the main obstacles. OK if you are as mad as a hatter but not advisable for most of us:D

 

I guess you could mimic a Daguerrotype on digital by using a silver toner/ink.

 

Much as you could mimic the imaging properties of a Leica lens with some photoshoping. That makes me suspect that you've never seen one.

 

There still are some people who do daguerrotypes. They have the problem of the fumes licked, so to speak. You expose the plate to the fumes in a closed box.

[jaapv]

That is right Philipp. The Daguerreian Society: Daguerreotype FAQ

[lct]

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Film users should thank digital ones to keep Leica alive instead of challenging their free way of liking photography. Leica will keep supporting analogue cameras as long as film will stay alive anyway so don't panic folks there is no reason to give way to paranoia.

[andybarton]

For my part, I am only expressing an opinion and not questionning anyone else's use of any camera.

 

What other people do is none of my business.

[Stealth3kpl]

"Horses for courses".

On wednesday my 4x4 was perfect for getting to the top of a mountain track. The van wouldn't have managed it. Yesterday we camped out in the van. Couldn't have done that in the car.

Pete

[Joachim123]

If you travel to countries such as the following their electrical capacity is dubious at best. What I mean is that there are power surges, power outages, and just general electrical chaos. Unless you are in a good hotel what can subsidize electricty with a generator you are at their mercy. So how to you charge a digital system under these conditions?

 

Dominican Republic

Cuba

Jamaica

Laos

Vietnam

Most Africa Countries

Peru

Bolivia

 

Finally, a slide I can hold in my hand and look at it any time. Try that with digital?

[jaapv]

I can only speak for most Africa countries. In the decade I have been shooting digital in South Africa, Botswana, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Zambia, Tanzania, Kenia, Uganda, Gambia, Nigeria and Senegal. I have never had trouble with charging batteries....Nearly every market has a shop that charges car batteries from a generator , many places have their own generator and all cars carry 12 V on board. And there are even mains here and there Basically the availability of electricity is far better than the availability of film ever was. I won't bother you with the woes of travels with hundreds of film rolls on a long trip, stolen exposed () film, etc.....

[Joachim123]

That might be true for a person who has travelled to Africa on numerous occasions. But what about someone who doesnt know the system?

 

Yes carrying film may be a pain but I prefer to know that I wont have to go looking for a charging station.

 

Try charging a battery in the Dominican Republic where the electrical voltage goes from 80 to 130 volts. A lot of electrical systems are ruined by the chaotic electrical system.

 

Maybe the best compromise is to take both systems along?

[jaapv]

Even for a novice, Africa is not a problem. The circuit frequented by firsttimers, be it backpackers or luxury tours, is very clued up to the needs of tourists.

I think the chargers can handle that kind of current fluctuation. Normally they are rated 110-240 V but will accept lower voltages. And they have a 12 input to run from a car battery.

[johnalex141r]

Hey Lars;

 

I found that I simply do not want to go back to film, even when provoked by a seven week photographic abstinence. I do not want the bother. I do not want the inflexibility of a camera tied up with one particular film. I don't want the grain -- I have struggled for decades to get rid of it -- and I don't want the lack of resolution and the slow film speeds. I don't want the wait for results. In short, I have been claimed by the Great Digital Demon. I am and shall remain damned to the last of my days...

 

When my M8 needed repair, I went back to film. Now that the M8 is fixed, I'm thinking of trading it in on an M6 or similar. M8 - less than 200 shutter clicks since last November.

 

I think the reason is that I use computers all day; was writing image processing software (shader programming - using the GPU) and so on - it is really, really, nice NOT to have to use computers in the evenings/weekends, too!

 

Each to their own; I'm frankly surprised that I'm enjoying film/B&W darkroom work again - the slow pace, the tactile feel of it all, the surprise at finding light leaks in my medium format cameras, and so on!

 

(I am no longer iStockPhotoing my digital photos - my thoughts are that I now enjoy photography on my own terms, nobody else has to care) (iStockPhoto? Yes, I'm accepted, but, for a while was doing almost 7 days/week computer work; last thing I needed was to worry about model releases, etc, etc...)

 

Life works in strange ways.

 

Old man from the days of iPhone development and OpenGL-ES 2.0

JohnS.

[wizard]

Call me a tactile person, I like to hold somethng tangible in my hands that I can say I have put a lot of thought and care into creating.

 

+1, and one of the very reasons I still much prefer film over digital.

 

Just a speculative thought, do we have any idea if an M8 or M9 will still be working in 60 years like the an M2 or M3? Just wondering .

 

Oh yes, we DO have an idea on this. IMHO there is no sound reason to believe that any of these electronic wizardries will in fact be operative in 60 years. First, there won't be any replacement batteries. Second, there won't be any replacement parts for the electronics. And third, and that is probably the most important reason, nobody will want to use a 60 year old electronic camera anyway. Why should anyone want to use it? There will be much better devices on the market by then, no question.

 

Film was and is different, as a user was and is able to benefit from ever evolving film technology while still using his old camera, which may be a 50 or 60 year old Leica. That is why these old cameras are still sought after, because people know they are able to take photographs that do not differ from photographs taken with the latest Nikon F6, to name just one example.

 

Andy

[bocaburger]

If you travel to countries such as the following their electrical capacity is dubious at best. What I mean is that there are power surges, power outages, and just general electrical chaos. Unless you are in a good hotel what can subsidize electricty with a generator you are at their mercy. So how to you charge a digital system under these conditions?

 

Dominican Republic

Cuba

Jamaica

Laos

Vietnam

Most Africa Countries

Peru

Bolivia

 

What are you saying, that they don't have cellular phones and iPods in those countries? Just out of curiosity, which ones have you been to recently? At least in the cities people have all the same gadgets we do, including surge protectors. If I was traveling to remote regions in eg Vietnam, I'd bring plenty of spares and top off the charge in Ho Chi Minh City before heading out. That said, I've always thought that a camera as ideal for traveling and photojournalism as an M8 should have an option for using AA batteries, and I'm a little surprised none of the clever aftermarket inventors has made one.

 

Finally, a slide I can hold in my hand and look at it any time. Try that with digital?

 

With a digital wallet I can hold the equivalent of a few thousand slides in my hand and look at them any time, and more magnified than a 35mm slide, too. Try that with film?

[jaapv]

Oh yes, we DO have an idea on this. IMHO there is no sound reason to believe that any of these electronic wizardries will in fact be operative in 60 years. First, there won't be any replacement batteries. Second, there won't be any replacement parts for the electronics. And third, and that is probably the most important reason, nobody will want to use a 60 year old electronic camera anyway. Why should anyone want to use it? There will be much better devices on the market by then, no question.

 

 

Andy

 

 

Hmmm. my brother has a 60-year old Kuba taperecorder that he restored to perfect working order recently - no problem obtaining the electronic parts, valves etc.

And batteries? There are battery restoration services all over the place even now. There is no battery that cannot be restored, even the very first NiCads. It is quite reasonable to suppose people will be using future gear some decades in the future, but it is creating a myth to say that the current gear will be irrepairable/useless. Even software is not just going to disappear. Just look at the list of formats supported by Photoshop. Starting with the decades old BMP format, a host of obsolete extensions are listed.

[adan]

As usual, anything that smacks of "film vs. digital" ends up being a string of "yes, buts....."

 

On the question of grain in digital pictures:

 

Brush (or pallette knife) strokes are inherent to painting (excluding airbrush work). Some artists make expressive use of them - some artists work very hard to minimize them ("field" painters like Stella and Albers). But they are a natural effect of the medium.

 

Grain is an inherent effect in FILM photography (at least with small negs). Some photographers make expressive use of it - and some work very hard to minimize it (Gene Smith used to mix exhausted D76 into his fresh batches to soften the grain, and print with a black hairnet over the enlarger lens to soften it further).

 

Grain is NOT an inherent effect in digital photography. It can be pasted on, just as one can fake a picture by cloning in extra smoke or missiles to falsify reality.

 

As a young man, Frank Lloyd Wright was watching a building going up in Chicago. An early "modern" structure with steel framework - but (to appease architectural tastes of the past), a skin of "stone" made out of cast iron. One of the panels broke loose and killed several workers on the ground.

 

That was when he decided that trying to build a "stone" building out of iron was a silly idea. A new medium has its own characteristics, and the effective artist will find the aesthetic beauty in those, rather than make a pastiche of the past.

[bill]

A new medium has its own characteristics, and the effective artist will find the aesthetic beauty in those, rather than make a pastiche of the past.

 

Well said.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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Hallo,

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[Nikkor AIS]

Done with film. Congratulations, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Looking forward to seeing your camera's up for sale.

 

 

 

Gregory