bill Posted August 26, 2010 Share #141 Posted August 26, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Get a Mamiya 6 if you want a square format rangefinder Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 26, 2010 Posted August 26, 2010 Hi bill, Take a look here photokina - Your Questions To Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
barcoder Posted August 26, 2010 Share #142 Posted August 26, 2010 For those wishing to know on the state of film M cameras: Leica says that it "has not stopped producing its analogue camera models, the Leica M7 and Leica MP, nor does it currently have any intention to do so." British Journal of Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 26, 2010 Share #143 Posted August 26, 2010 We know... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/news/137497-leica-statement-film-camera-production.html#post1427298 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted August 27, 2010 Share #144 Posted August 27, 2010 How about a firmware solution for remapping the sensor for dead pixels/column defects? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 27, 2010 Share #145 Posted August 27, 2010 How about a firmware solution for remapping the sensor for dead pixels/column defects? Lovely idea if it were possible but I would doubt if the camera is constructed in such a way as to allow this to be implemented. When people have had this problem, I think I am right that the cameras have generally returned from Leica with the sensor replaced. If they can remap, I an guessing that Leica connect to the look up table for the sensor at quite a low level to correct this. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazsax95 Posted August 27, 2010 Share #146 Posted August 27, 2010 I'd like to know: How does Leica feel about adopting and open source firmware system? I admire the use of DNG files. What I think would shake up the industry a bit and also set Leica apart (other than operating in niche market segments) would be a firmware that the community/software developers could build upon in a way similar to the Android and (jailbroken) iPhone environments. Imagine if you could start with the basic firmware and then opt for true 16-bit files, or utilize the buffer differently - e.g. opting for 5fps for 1 sec instead of 3fps for 2 sec - or a means to perform in-camera down-rez that would yield better high ISO at a lower mp, or a b&w mode with no interpolation of pixels, yielding a sharper image. I'm sure other people can think of other uses, and that would underline the point here: one great piece of hardware can be fine-tuned to more specified tastes via some form of open software system. Why should we rely on any one hardware designer/manufacturer to also make the software interface in the device? How many Canon shooters use Canon's editing software? Leica already understand that much and as such include a license for Lightroom with the camera. And it's especially beneficial to a small company like Leica since they don't need to establish a team of engineers to work on such a fruitless endeavor. So let's take it one step further. Let the development community support the firmware and fix small problems and develop "apps" and generally just enhance the already brilliant hardware. What do you say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted August 27, 2010 Share #147 Posted August 27, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I really feel sorry for the poor schmuck that gets to answer these questions! Will anyone be fiming? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 27, 2010 Share #148 Posted August 27, 2010 How does Leica feel about adopting and open source firmware system? My guess would be that as bad ideas go they can't think of a worse one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 27, 2010 Share #149 Posted August 27, 2010 I really feel sorry for the poor schmuck that gets to answer these questions! You're assuming they'll be answered - I expect quite a few will be read, there'll be laughter, and then they'll move onto the next one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazsax95 Posted August 27, 2010 Share #150 Posted August 27, 2010 wow, what a d---bag response. and without a trickle of any actual substance. i'd like to see you walk into Google or Dell's offices and tell them what bad ideas they have supporting open source software. My guess would be that as bad ideas go they can't think of a worse one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 27, 2010 Share #151 Posted August 27, 2010 The only reason I didn't add more detail is that it's such a bad idea. Or to be a little more explicit, how does a hardware manufacturer such as Leica support their product when a third party is allowed to write firmware that can brick the camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 27, 2010 Share #152 Posted August 27, 2010 I would guess that Andreas will consolidate and edit the list of questions before presenting them to Leica Camera. I think that this is an excellent initiative by Andreas. Anyone at the 2009 meeting with briefing by Stefan Daniel will remember that we got an honest and pretty candid briefing as well as some major Leica news. Personally I'm surprised at the number of new members finding voice in this thread. I predict a flood of new threads, posts and possibly neuer benutzer very shortly after this meeting. Everyone play nicely:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashfaque Posted August 28, 2010 Share #153 Posted August 28, 2010 Long shot (& I already know the answer), but worth trying: Will Leica provide any discount for full-time University students across the world [, I don't mean photography students only] in buying camera and lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazsax95 Posted August 28, 2010 Share #154 Posted August 28, 2010 I don't know whether to educate you on the very common practice of 'opening' software platforms for development or to make a snarky comment about how uninformed you come across and how thoroughly pompous you must be to feel that you don't even need to state why an idea is bad. I thank you for 'elaborating', but your response is laughable. Hardware and software companies work in tandem all the freaking time to make products that do amazing things (look up SDK and API). Apple has built the most prolific development platform for the iPhone and revolutionized the cellular industry in the process, and they're one of the most notoriously "closed" companies in this regard. Apple looked at the cell phone and thought 'this ought to be different...better." They made an amazing piece of hardware, but it's the software that makes it do so much for people. Google is doing the same thing but in a reverse kind of way, making the software and letting hardware designers build their devices as best they can to take advantage of the software, even allowing them to taylor the UI to their liking and to fit their 'vision' of the ideal phone. My suggestion for Leica derives from the desire for a company to look at the modern digital camera and think the same thing Apple did with the phone. I buy all kinds of hardware that allows me to run software to make it do all kinds of cool stuff. Why can't my camera offer the same flexibility through an open software/firmware development platform? Have you never heard anyone say "apps are the future"? That's a rhetorical question, as I don't really want you to respond. I've made my suggestion for Leica, not you. No, your response was so bad I didn't need to offer these details. The only reason I didn't add more detail is that it's such a bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 28, 2010 Share #155 Posted August 28, 2010 wow, what a d---bag response. and without a trickle of any actual substance. i'd like to see you walk into Google or Dell's offices and tell them what bad ideas they have supporting open source software. There's no need to be insulting. One good reason would be that you can kiss goodbye to your warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 28, 2010 Share #156 Posted August 28, 2010 Name me an open source camera... Or TV... Or DVD player... Or car... Or... The thought of an Adenoid or Uhura M fills me with dread - and amusement. Want to snap like Cartier-Bresson? "There's an App for that" Oh please... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted August 28, 2010 Share #157 Posted August 28, 2010 Are we still talking about cameras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 28, 2010 Share #158 Posted August 28, 2010 My suggestion for Leica derives from the desire for a company to look at the modern digital camera and think the same thing Apple did with the phone. I buy all kinds of hardware that allows me to run software to make it do all kinds of cool stuff Thank you for the education. As someone who develops software for a living I am aware of the concepts you mention. However, you will notice that Apple while encouraging software development for the iPhone - through their excellent and free IDE - haven't actually released their OS into the public domain for people to play around with and modify. Neither have Microsoft with Windows, and as far as I'm aware neither have Google with Android. The Leica firmware is the equivalent to an operating system, it's what allows the hardware and the user to interact, in fact if anything it's lover level than an OS. Questions you need to ask are, given the small base of Leica M9 users - a few thousand at most - how many would be prepared to load third party software onto their camera? Why would someone develop software for such a small market? What would Leica do if someone's camera went tits up? How would a developer actually test their firmware - I'm not a firmware developer, but I believe that rather complicated software modelling is used in it's development. Who releases proprietary firmware into the public domain? Who has ever modified proprietary firmware - please don't mention the Russian who has released updated firmware for Canon cameras, all he was doing was setting a few flags in firmware to 'switch on' functionality that was already in the code but switched off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 28, 2010 Share #159 Posted August 28, 2010 Name me an open source camera... Or TV... Or DVD player... Or car... Or... (...) "There's an App for that" The "Frankencamera" most definitely is a camera and it's open source. It's not commercial, though. There appears to be a number of web cameras which are open source. However, I think we'd soon agree here on not calling them "real cameras". Any PC nowadays can do double service (or single one, for that matter) as TV or DVD player. There's no scarcity of PCs running exclusively on open source software. "There's an app for that" is not contingent on the software being open source or closed source. As a matter of fact, the amount of money spent on silly or useless closed sourced apps is probably quite a bit larger than that spent on open sourced apps. Before anyone starts feeling clever about the perceived oxymoron - it's not. "Open source" is not the same as "freeware". As a matter of fact, all of us use quite a bit of open source products. Most servers in the internet run on open source software. Also, there's a number of forum members whose computers are driven by open source software. A digital camera running on open source software is not all that inconceivable. It would force the manufacturer of the camera to construct and implement a very cleanly designed architecture which clearly separates the software into parts which can brick your camera, parts which are not to be disclosed and functions which can reasonably supplied by an "open market". If software ranging from the PCs BIOS to suites of card games can be done successfully in open source and the iPod can be used with open source software without it going up into smoke there's not really a reason why it should not be possible for cameras. However, it's conceivably not possible for cameras which are not "architected" from the beginning for a "distributed responsibility" model. I'd find it somewhat astonishing if one of the M8s or the M9 could be open sourced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 28, 2010 Share #160 Posted August 28, 2010 ... you will notice that Apple while encouraging software development for the iPhone - through their excellent and free IDE - haven't actually released their OS into the public domain Actually, they have placed it under an open source license. It's the operating system in OS X and it's called "Darwin". The Leica firmware is the equivalent to an operating system, it's what allows the hardware and the user to interact, in fact if anything it's lover level than an OS. If a Leica camera can be said to have an operating system at all, it has software which covers several layers of the stack, ranging from BIOS through OS and utilities up to GUI and application layer. Questions you need to ask are, given the small base of Leica M9 users - a few thousand at most - how many would be prepared to load third party software onto their camera? Why would someone develop software for such a small market? I'd rather think you could find a number of people willing to pay for a solution for the M8 to manually set the lens. It's not inconceivable that someone could come up with a solution despite all the memory constraints. As we can learn from other industries, there are quite a few open source solutions which can be used on wide selections of platforms. Take Rockbox, for instance. Not only does it run on practically every type of iPod there is, it also runs on an astonishing number of other kinds of players. However, I hasten to add that the example is a bit flawed as I personally don't use Rockbox. I use the iPod with the original software. Did use, rather. What would Leica do if someone's camera went tits up? The same as every other manufacturer of goods with or without software. The warranty applies to materials and workmanship. It is not void by using third party software. It does not cover damages which are not due to poor material or workmanship. Cell phones, and computers are being repaired all the time. Who releases proprietary firmware into the public domain? Who has ever modified proprietary firmware. The topic under discussion is open source, which is not even remotely related to public domain. Products sold or distributed as open source come with a license, just as any other product where the concept applies. There is a growing number of manufacturers which use open source code in their products. Depending on the product, the manufacturer made the software, used open source software which already existed or had it made for the purpose. Your router and/or modem presumably runs on open source software, your NAS very probably too. They are used with open source software which runs on your computer and which came in the box of the product you bought. Modifying proprietary software (firm- oder otherware) is not unheard of. For some products you will find instruction on how to do that freely in the internet. Depending on the kind of product, you also will find such modifications which you can download and apply to your product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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