John Z. Goriup Posted March 20, 2021 Share #14901 Posted March 20, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson, I made an error in the above post referring to the car you mentioned as a Siata when I actually meant to say Cisitalia, of course. No, not Joe Biden symptoms, merely a lack of concentration. Moderators: In the latest round of updates to the site of a couple of weeks ago we seem to have lost the ability to edit our post, which in a case like this is a real inconvenience - can we restore the ability to change posts ? JZG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 Hi John Z. Goriup, Take a look here Name this car..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14902 Posted March 21, 2021 All the Nuvolari Spyders I know are Italian, the Cisitalia 202 which I have already guessed and the only other one I have heard of is the Stanguellini, also Italian. I am guessing with the Michelin X tyres, that it might be French, as the only other period car fitting these as standard in period, was the Lancia B24 in various guises but of course, also Italian. The only other similar looking car I can think of is a Talbot Lago T26 Gran Sport. Wilson John, the edit facility is on the three dots next to the post number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14903 Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) OMG. John, this is a real good one. The hardtop was pretty distracting but this appears to be a BMW 507 Roadster with hardtop although the location of the filler cap is odd. But it was created to be exported to the US. The Austrian that you refer to then would be Max Hofmann, (inter alia) a BWM dealer in the US who - as I just learned - made it in the Automotive Hall of Fame. Edited March 21, 2021 by a.j.z 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14904 Posted March 21, 2021 Correct on all counts ! It was difficult to show more geneous crops because the car is festooned with so many of the blue & white 'spinning propeller' badges that it would have revealed the identity immediately. Yes, Max Hoffmann was a really interesting individual. He actually started out as a jeweler in Manhattan on the corner of Park Ave. and 59th street and switched to an upscale car salon soon after WW II. There he represented Jaguar, then VW for a short time, which got him involved with Porsche, and then Mercedes. His intimate knowledge of the American car market and the success of his car business enabled him to convince Porsche & Mercedes to build the Speedster and the M-B 300SL 'Gullwing' followed by the even more succesful Roadster, and the BMW 507. The first two did wonders for their respective companies, but the 507 singlehandedly almost bankrupted BMW. Thanks for participating.................your turn. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 6 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4165123'>More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14905 Posted March 21, 2021 ..........and another view. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4165125'>More sharing options...
stuny Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14906 Posted March 21, 2021 I got Max Hoffmann, but no further. I had no idea of his involvement in the 507, though he's legendary for so many other interesting cars, including convincing Porsche to produce the Speedster. Please note the three horizontal dots in a row in the upper right of the post. Click it to get at some controls, such as Edit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14907 Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I am a little bit disappointed that I did not recognize it immediately as it is one of my favorite classic cars but I was thinking far to complicated and did not see the obvious 🥴 The first crops still where pretty clever. I still wonder about the filler cap as on all cars/photos I have seen it is on the right side behind the rear wheel. Edited March 21, 2021 by a.j.z 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14908 Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) Here is the next one: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 21, 2021 by a.j.z Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4165363'>More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14909 Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) vor 7 Stunden schrieb John Z. Goriup: Yes, Max Hoffmann was a really interesting individual. He actually started out as a jeweler in Manhattan on the corner of Park Ave. and 59th street and switched to an upscale car salon soon after WW II. There he represented Jaguar, then VW for a short time, which got him involved with Porsche, and then Mercedes. His intimate knowledge of the American car market and the success of his car business enabled him to convince Porsche & Mercedes to build the Speedster and the M-B 300SL 'Gullwing' followed by the even more succesful Roadster, and the BMW 507. The first two did wonders for their respective companies, but the 507 singlehandedly almost bankrupted BMW. And then another Austrian, Wolfgang Denzel, saved them with a far less interesting car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_700 Edited March 21, 2021 by a.j.z Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14910 Posted March 21, 2021 One advantage of todays BMW 507 is that they are MUCH better restored than they were when delivered new. Very poor quality compared to MB 300 SL when new. But not less nicely looking. My todays "secret choice" would be the "ugly sister" 503 convertible.At one point (end 1970s/early 1980s) you could get four of those for the price of just one 507. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14911 Posted March 21, 2021 If I could choose a car in this price range it would be a difficult choice between the 507, the 300 SL Gullwing and the 959 but I probably would choose the latter as it qualifies as a daily driver. What would be your choice? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14912 Posted March 21, 2021 I know someone who restores 507's both series one and two (S2 are much better and have a more comfortable driving position) and says they are a nightmare to restore, given how poorly they were built. They are also not very quick and the engines are not strong enough to be anything other than very mildly modified. As he is an old friend, he strongly recommended against buying one of them, no matter how nice a sound they make and how pretty they are. As a BMW, I would much prefer a 3.0 CSL, especially one of the very rare 24 valve models. Wilson 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14913 Posted March 21, 2021 Yes, the Batmobile is very nice, too 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14914 Posted March 21, 2021 If I had to sink a serious amount of playmoney into an old BMW, it would be a 328 Roadster or a 327/328 Cabriolet. I´m just fine "only" having an original 507/503 brochure which is also a pleasure because of the skillful drawings and painless maintenance costs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14915 Posted March 21, 2021 As long as we're chatting about BMW 507, I feel compelled to submit the attached two images of a one-off 507 Coupe designed by the legendary French-born iindustrial designer Raymond Loewy, who relocated to the U.S., in the early 1930s through the late '50s, the period in which his futuristic, streamlined designs flourished and were popular. Early on in the production run of 507s, the factory set aside two of the roadster chassis for special coachwork. The first one went to Loewy. It is important to remember that Albrecht Graf von Goertz, the designer of the production 507 got his start as a designer with Loewy, and they developed a close friendship. I suppose Loewy wanted to remind the world that Goertz's inspired design for the BMW roadster had its roots in the training he received underhis tutelage, but in my eyes all it proves is the wisdom expressed in the old adage - " if it ain't broke, why bother fixin' it". I hope I'm not offending anyone, but to me that's about as ugly and ungainly a design as I've ever seen.......hideous from any angle, without a single good and graceful line anywhere. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4165544'>More sharing options...
a.j.z Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14916 Posted March 21, 2021 vor einer Stunde schrieb Rona!d: If I had to sink a serious amount of playmoney into an old BMW, it would be a 328 Roadster or a 327/328 Cabriolet. I´m just fine "only" having an original 507/503 brochure which is also a pleasure because of the skillful drawings and painless maintenance costs. This one looks nice https://www.thiesen-automobile.com/cars/327-sportcabriolet/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14917 Posted March 21, 2021 ............and a side view of this abomination. The second chassis destined for special coach-built bodywork went to Michelotti in '57. After Giovanni Michelotti sketched it, the design went to Sergio Scaglietti for fabrication of the body and then on to Vignale in Torino for final assembly. You can see the red roadster next to the Loewy toad......again, I fail to see any improvement over Goertz's design and I think it was a wise decision not to pursue either one of these excersizes further....besides, they were loosing money on every 507 out the door and the funds simply weren't available, which is why production stopped after only about 250 507s total instead of the thousands Hoffmann envisioned. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4165549'>More sharing options...
hektor Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14918 Posted March 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, John Z. Goriup said: ............and a side view of this abomination. The second chassis destined for special coach-built bodywork went to Michelotti in '57. After Giovanni Michelotti sketched it, the design went to Sergio Scaglietti for fabrication of the body and then on to Vignale in Torino for final assembly. You can see the red roadster next to the Loewy toad......again, I fail to see any improvement over Goertz's design and I think it was a wise decision not to pursue either one of these excersizes further....besides, they were loosing money on every 507 out the door and the funds simply weren't available, which is why production stopped after only about 250 507s total instead of the thousands Hoffmann envisioned. JZG One can see the origins of the Studebaker Avanti. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z. Goriup Posted March 21, 2021 Share #14919 Posted March 21, 2021 A view of the 'face' of the 3200 Michelotti-Vignale Roadster, as it was called. Looking at it reminds me of an old italian proverb.............."when there is no profit, the loss is obvious". I guess that could be easily paraphrased into "when there is no improvement, why even try"..........to my eyes totally lacking in charm, visual excitement, lightfooted airiness and the sweeping, elegant lines of the original 507. JZG Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/119687-name-this-car/?do=findComment&comment=4165568'>More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 22, 2021 Share #14920 Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, a.j.z said: If I could choose a car in this price range it would be a difficult choice between the 507, the 300 SL Gullwing and the 959 but I probably would choose the latter as it qualifies as a daily driver. What would be your choice? My personal choice of any road car ever created given 'carte blanche' will always be a Dino 206. Nothing else comes close. Philip. Edited March 22, 2021 by pippy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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