scott kirkpatrick Posted January 17, 2010 Share #21 Posted January 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I get that vertical line on shots like this on my M8 as well. I've seen some describe it as a defect and others as an unavoidable "response" to harsh light in a low light situation - similar to the "green blob" effect in response to strong light at edges of an image's frame. With that issue, I've seen most people just live with the green blob because you can position light in the frame in a manner to reduce the likelihood of green blobs - I'm not aware of any method to minimize the vertical line issue in low light shots like this so I'm very interested in a proper fix for it. Do the techs at Solms consider the vertical line to be a fixable sensor defect and if so, do they fix this on their own dime or does the poor M8 user just pay a hefty bill to repair? As most M8's are off warranty now, does anyone know what Leica charges the M8 user to conduct this repair? Well, my M8 is an M8u, upgraded just under a year ago, so I might still be under warranty. I'm going to call and ask about their recommendation. This is the first time that I have noticed the vertical line, but my normal practice is to shoot with Auto ISO capped at 800. I seldom to never use 1250 or 2500 on the M8. There is no vertical line at 160, although now I can see it at 640 sometimes. I get the green streak (not the blob -- that was fixed) from time to time. It's an old friend and doesn't bother me. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Hi scott kirkpatrick, Take a look here I can't find the noise.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
DFV Posted January 17, 2010 Share #22 Posted January 17, 2010 Both shots were taken at f/5.6 and aperture priority. The M9 chose 1/40 sec; the M8 chose 1/45 sec (yet it is a bit lighter). So there is a definite difference in sensitivity,somewhat countered by the fact that the M9 is more center-weighted, and thus more influenced by the bright blown-out spot in the center of the picture. Fantastic! That is the test I wanted to make when I got my M9 back. The results do not surprise me at all since this really struck me from the first day I got the M9. I just needed proof that I am not imagining things. P.s. I have had no lines or green effects on my M8.2 as far as I can remember but I rarely shoot above ISO 160 and 99% of my pictures are DNG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share #23 Posted January 17, 2010 Btw, nobody noticed that the M9 did not produce the blue rings around specular highlights like the M8 does, or, at least, far more diffused.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 18, 2010 Share #24 Posted January 18, 2010 Results are very poor... If you know, what today FF from Nikon, Canon can deliver. And base on tests - even X1 probably would give you less noisy results. Why don't you expect from Leica highest class results! And only compare to previous model... Both are far behind other manufacturers... @jaapv - next time when you will be looking for noise at ISO 2500 - pls make TWO PHOTOS - 1st with ISO 160, 2nd with 2500. I guarantee you will find a lot of noise easier, you will see how picture deteriorated. Best Regards, Jerry_R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #25 Posted January 18, 2010 Thank you for your highly expert advice. I see no evidence that you ever made ONE photograph.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 18, 2010 Share #26 Posted January 18, 2010 Your welcome ;-) You only can say how much noise you see - when you compare high ISO to base ISO and to other cameras. Ideally to best in class! So far I was active only on DP Review forum (u43) and national Canon, Olympus and Panasonic forums. I used 5D II earlier. I did sevral low light comparisons on DP Review forum for both - video and pictures. As very demanding user - I was one of few who identified all u43 bugs. Few samples of my photos below. Best Regards, Jerry_R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 18, 2010 Share #27 Posted January 18, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Results are very poor... If you know, what today FF from Nikon, Canon can deliver. And base on tests - even X1 probably would give you less noisy results. Why don't you expect from Leica highest class results! And only compare to previous model... Both are far behind other manufacturers... @jaapv - next time when you will be looking for noise at ISO 2500 - pls make TWO PHOTOS - 1st with ISO 160, 2nd with 2500. I guarantee you will find a lot of noise easier, you will see how picture deteriorated. Best Regards, Jerry_R The results are actually quite good considerng IT'S A CCD SENSOR! Compare to other ccd sensor cameras (typically medium format that cost 2-3x more) it's very good. Personally I'm glad Leica continued to go with a CCD sensor. If I need smoothed out hi-iso pics I can use my Nikon. If I want insanely sharp and realistic images I'll use my M9, noise or no noise (which to me is very similar to film grain- not a bad thing). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 18, 2010 Share #28 Posted January 18, 2010 I simply can not get, how someone can feel lucky having such noisy shots: M9 ISO 2500 Color Shots: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review And I am sharing my opinion with you. Today, even cameras like E-P2 probably deal better with noice. I have nothing against GRAIN. But digital noise in color - is not nice. Visible in darker parts of frame, like on photos from above link is terrible. Maybe - if author would use DFINE, NOISE NINJA or simlar - results would be pleasing, especially in WEB resolution. In their existing form - they aren't. I personally would use light tripod or monopod and use lower ISO + longer time. Just 2 cents from me - pls understand someone new to Leica world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrice Posted January 18, 2010 Share #29 Posted January 18, 2010 Jerry, Digital noise in colour is very very easy to remove leaving a (usually) acceptable luminance noise. What is unacceptable in my opinion is shadow noise at low iso, the M9 has none, the 5D Mark II has it in spades, I've owned both cameras. At ISO 80/160/320 the M9 has less noise than the 5D-II at 50/100/200. Also, due to a superior CFA it has better blues and reds, quite noticeably in fact. It has less highlight latitude but far more shadow latitude, allowing lower ISO's to be used. Due to no mirror slap slower shutter speeds can also be handheld. I feel less limited with the M9 than I did with the Canon. With the 5D, this shot would be pink from trying to recover all the clipped red caused by having an inferior CFA. I shoot at night, in bars, and in other such locations handheld and never have any issues with noise. I used to shoot with 800 film and considered that plenty fast. Digital has spoiled amateurs by making them able to shoot in conditions previously reserved for those with technique to overcome technical limitations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #30 Posted January 18, 2010 Ok, Jerry, there was no need for me to be snappish. However your suggestion is not relevant to this thread. This is a user report and we all know what an M9 shot looks like at low ISO. If I wanted a comparative test, it would take a lot of work, time and expertise.I doubt that many on this forum would be willing to do that, more so as there is an excellent comparison between M8, M9 and 5D in a recent LFI. No need to invent the wheel again. The results show that the 5D and M9 are close, with the 5D holding the edge in high-ISO Raw, the M9 in high-ISO jpg and Noise Ninja corrected high-ISO and in low ISO. As for your photographs, they are fine shots, but hardly useful for showing noise performance. The blacks are pushed too low to show noise and the highlights, well, there is less noise in highlights by nature. To show ISO noise you need more subdued images with far less contrast.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 18, 2010 Share #31 Posted January 18, 2010 Oh, I didn't post my photos to show noise or high ISO ;-) Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #32 Posted January 18, 2010 Fair enough, but why did you post them then in this thread? Seeing they are Canon photographs why did you post them in this forum at all then?:confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 18, 2010 Share #33 Posted January 18, 2010 I responded to: "see no evidence that you ever made ONE photograph", looks I misunderstood you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share #34 Posted January 18, 2010 I responded to: "see no evidence that you ever made ONE photograph", looks I misunderstood you Hey! those images are interesting. Start posting Leica stuff on the photoforum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 18, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 18, 2010 I responded to: "see no evidence that you ever made ONE photograph", looks I misunderstood you Quite easy to understand, Jerry. You may well criticise Leica on this good old forum but you must show an evidence that you shoot photographs first of all. Right? With Leica stuff of course, otherwise you're not allowed to post them here. OK? Now what are you supposed to do if you want to show the superiority of non Leica stuff? Haha! I expected this question of course. The response is easy: as Leicas are better than any other cams, by far, you're not supposed to ask this question. Got it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted January 18, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 18, 2010 I can't wait my M9... It still can take few weeks... Then I will share some pictures taken for sure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 20, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 20, 2010 I get that vertical line on shots like this on my M8 as well. I've seen some describe it as a defect and others as an unavoidable "response" to harsh light in a low light situation ..... Do the techs at Solms consider the vertical line to be a fixable sensor defect and if so, do they fix this on their own dime or does the poor M8 user just pay a hefty bill to repair? As most M8's are off warranty now, does anyone know what Leica charges the M8 user to conduct this repair? I sent some pictures to CS@leica-camera.com, they judged that a line of hot pixels is a situation that should be repaired at the factory, and yes, the warranty period since the upgrade covers it. So that camera is in the air now. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 20, 2010 Share #38 Posted January 20, 2010 I have been experimenting with ISO 2500. The only reason this image is a bit soft is because it was handheld at 1/3rd. Summicron 35asph. But where is the noise? I add a crop. Standard C1 developing and no NR software....The only secret is to keep that histogram where it should be. In the middle. This thing is really better than the M8. Jaap - completely agree. The set here were taken at 1600 (walking back home from Barbican in central London last night after the excellent Ian Dury biopic - "Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll") Compared to the M8 they're a significant step up in quality so far as noise is concerned. These processed in LR 2.6RC. Can't WAIT until LR 3 is past Beta. M9 files really respond well in the new LR raw engine. I was particularly impressed by the image of the work on the new station at Farringdon. The light was as is, a milky mist with an odd uplight from the street + floods. The M9 sensor pulls out the detail of the fabric of the shrouding and noise is fully controlable and acceptable. All shot hand held with 35 cron Mk IV. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109803-i-cant-find-the-noise/?do=findComment&comment=1193444'>More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted January 20, 2010 Share #39 Posted January 20, 2010 I think one could sum up ISo noise in "does it work" and the answer is yes. Here's a photo from last week at 1250 ISO in the street with mixed light sources (but a very strong one from behind from a big shopping window). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/109803-i-cant-find-the-noise/?do=findComment&comment=1193987'>More sharing options...
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