AlanJW Posted October 26, 2009 Share #21 Posted October 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't especially object to the idea of a deposit, but to compare cars and cameras is a bit like apples and bananas, isn't it? I have never been asked for more tha $500 or $1000 as a deposit on a car I was buying. On a $50,000 car that would be 1/2% to 1%. For a car in stock at the dealer, the deposit "holds" the car so no-one else can buy it. Its been reserved for you. Similar idea with buying a house. When you go to contract there is a deposit required and the contract means the seller cannot sell to someone else until your deal closes (or doesn't close as the case may be). I can understand dealers wanting separate serious and perhaps unknown buyers from those who simply want to put their name on every possible list. But putting down a deposit in this instance just guarantees your place in line and does not earmark a camera for you by a date certain or even a date uncertain, so in all instances the deposit should be refundable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 26, 2009 Posted October 26, 2009 Hi AlanJW, Take a look here Why buying an M9 reminds me of buying a car. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andreas_thomsen Posted October 26, 2009 Share #22 Posted October 26, 2009 i got mine at 9.9.09 and paid one week later!!!! cheers to my dealer andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted October 26, 2009 Share #23 Posted October 26, 2009 I might consider placing a deposit if the dealer could give me reasonable assurance on when I would receive delivery. But there's not a Leica dealer in the world who can do that today. So placing a deposit just weds you to a particular dealer, potentially elongating your wait. No thanks. For the next several months, until the initial buying surge is accomodated, there is absolutely no risk to the dealer. He'll be able to quickly move as many M9's as he can get. So why require a deposit? My local dealer - who does not require a deposit to get on his list - continues to earn my respect and my business through thoughtful business practices that foster a long-term relationship. Not by treating me like a deadbeat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted October 26, 2009 Share #24 Posted October 26, 2009 Re: "whining"I placed an order and then was notified (a few weeks later) that I would have to front a $2,000 non-refundable deposit. That, to me, is completely unreasonable. This was done by one of the most prominent Leica dealers in the US, a dealer that had been strongly recommended by others on this forum. This drove me to Keeble & Shuhchat, a local dealer; they required a $1,000 deposit which is 100% refundable. That, to me, is a far better way to treat a customer... A «refundable» deposit is an oxymoron in my book. A deposit, on principle, is non-refundable. Otherwise, why bother? Unless, of course, the item for which the deposit has been made is not delivered. Then, the deposit has to be refunded. Yes, the dealer could «put you on his list» with no deposit, but then there is no obligation on his part to sell you any M9 any time in the future. You will just be... on his list. He will sell to whoever he darn well pleases. Try and make a reservation on a plane or in a theater, or try and order a car without a deposit, or at least a credit card number, which amounts to the same. What the dealer wants to protect himself against is the no-show buyer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnakChan Posted October 26, 2009 Share #25 Posted October 26, 2009 Won't you say the same thing for marriage then? A commitment but not necessarily a guarantee? Personally (as a consumer ;-)) I don't object to a reasonable refundable deposit (where reasonable is say up to 10% as a sign of "good faith"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 27, 2009 Share #26 Posted October 27, 2009 A «refundable» deposit is an oxymoron in my book. A deposit, on principle, is non-refundable. Otherwise, why bother? Unless, of course, the item for which the deposit has been made is not delivered. Then, the deposit has to be refunded. Using cars as an example, most dealers require a deposit of $1,000. I've never heard of any dealer where this amount is not refundable in the event the customer chooses not to complete the transaction -- and the dealer has a huge exposure compared to a camera like the M9. In my case, I have ordered a number of cars that are not typically stocked by the dealers because of scarcity -- they are in high demand and short supply and never sit in stock. I have about a 50/50 ratio of completing the deal and have never had a problem getting my deposit back. Usually the problem is my height, as I'm 6'7' (202cm) tall. A camera dealer has zero exposure on an M9 in regards to a customer who changes their mind. There will be ten more customers ready to jump at the chance to grab one, at least for the foreseeable future. For me this has become a non-issue. Yes, I am unhappy with the dealer who tried to pull this stunt, but I found a good dealer who will, I think, be a great person to deal with over the long haul. I would love to have my M9 tomorrow, but the wait gives me a chance to carefully choose the Nikon gear I want to keep and sell the rest. Also, Leica's response indicates that they are also quite unhappy with the idea of a dealer requiring a non-refundable deposit. Lastly, as no dealer I spoke with could guarantee a delivery date, a non-refundable deposit just seems silly to me. Regardless, if it works for others that's great -- it just doesn't with me and I refuse to do business with someone who considers this a standard business practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 27, 2009 Share #27 Posted October 27, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Won't you say the same thing for marriage then? A commitment but not necessarily a guarantee? Wonder which is higher -- the divorce rate amongst married couples or the divorce rate between camera dealers and their customers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted October 27, 2009 Share #28 Posted October 27, 2009 Wonder which is higher -- the divorce rate amongst married couples or the divorce rate between camera dealers and their customers? Mmh. Relevant stats is the following : "the divorce rate amongst married couples shooting Leica cameras is much lower than the divorce rate between camera dealers and their customers" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnakChan Posted October 27, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 27, 2009 Thinking about it hammam may have a point, along the same analogy, I'm divorced from my ex-wife, but I'm still married to my Leica M7 (BTW, both were present on the wedding day). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted October 27, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 27, 2009 Thinking about it hammam may have a point, along the same analogy, I'm divorced from my ex-wife, but I'm still married to my Leica M7 (BTW, both were present on the wedding day). Did she refund you your deposit? I know mine didn't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted October 27, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 27, 2009 Re: "whining"I placed an order and then was notified (a few weeks later) that I would have to front a $2,000 non-refundable deposit. That, to me, is completely unreasonable. This was done by one of the most prominent Leica dealers in the US, a dealer that had been strongly recommended by others on this forum. This drove me to Keeble & Shuhchat, a local dealer; they required a $1,000 deposit which is 100% refundable. That, to me, is a far better way to treat a customer... I placed an order with this same dealer but have not sent them a deposit via Paypal. I have bought a lot of Leica gear from them in the past but doubt I will ever again. I really have a problem with the deposit thing for an item that they can sell on demand. What is strange is the no one has said their name and I will not either. I even offered to let them sell my M8.2 but ended up selling it myself and for a lot more than their offering. They do not take trades which is fine and only sell on consignment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 27, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 27, 2009 I placed an order with this same dealer but have not sent them a deposit via Paypal... What is strange is the no one has said their name and I will not either. I even offered to let them sell my M8.2 but ended up selling it myself and for a lot more than their offering. They do not take trades which is fine and only sell on consignment. Well, in my case I'm a newbie around here and I prefer not to burn any bridges. It's also not my style to talk about anyone in that way; even though I find it distasteful what they did is not terrible -- it's just bad business. It's not as though they're launching small boys in UFO-shaped balloons, for example... BTW, Austin is now one of my favorite places. We spent a week there this summer; though the daytime temps were always between 103 and 105 we walked around 5 miles per day. The "Sunday Gospel Brunch" at Threadgill's was simply amazing, and I don't think we heard a lick of bad music during the entire week. I can use the phrase "lick of" because I was born in Tennessee... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted October 27, 2009 Share #33 Posted October 27, 2009 Re: "whining"I placed an order and then was notified (a few weeks later) that I would have to front a $2,000 non-refundable deposit. That, to me, is completely unreasonable. This was done by one of the most prominent Leica dealers in the US, a dealer that had been strongly recommended by others on this forum. This drove me to Keeble & Shuhchat, a local dealer; they required a $1,000 deposit which is 100% refundable. That, to me, is a far better way to treat a customer... This deposit business is a dealer decision and not policy by Leica then. All customers are entitled to decide if they are prepared to put money down or go elsewhwere, of course. However I note from another post that one US dealer just got 4 cameras delivered ...and their waiting list has 80 people on it. Pretty clearly people have their names on multiple lists. If you paid some money down they know that you are serious. Whether or not a deposit is refundable of course is another issue for consumer law of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted October 28, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 28, 2009 Did she refund you your deposit? I know mine didn't Who was the American comedian who said "dont get married. Just find a woman you dont like and buy her a house". On Topic: I will have to pay for the goods anyway. So it does not matter to me if I pay 10% a few weeks before I take delivery. I think the interest charges on what I lose are ridiculously small these days. Anyway, my dealer has a steel M9 in stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enboe Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share #35 Posted October 28, 2009 Well, I lucked out. Kudos to Mark at Cooter's Camera in Dallas. I called this afternoon as I am in town for business. Yes, he had an M8, yes he would hold it for me to drive over from DFW, and yes I now own an M9, no deposit, no wait list. His other one was already spoken for, but I wouldn't hesitate putting them on the good list. Smiles and little sleep tonight. Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted October 28, 2009 Share #36 Posted October 28, 2009 Well, I lucked out. Kudos to Mark at Cooter's Camera in Dallas. I called this afternoon as I am in town for business. Yes, he had an M8, yes he would hold it for me to drive over from DFW, and yes I now own an M9, no deposit, no wait list. His other one was already spoken for, but I wouldn't hesitate putting them on the good list. Smiles and little sleep tonight. Eric You did luck out. Unfortunately if I bought it in Texas and since I live here I would pay an additional $577 for the sales tax. I am forced to buy from an out of state vendor and you out of staters can purchase from Texas. I honestly do try to support the local economy and we have a very nice Lecia dealer in Austin but $577 is a lot of other stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 28, 2009 Share #37 Posted October 28, 2009 You did luck out. Unfortunately if I bought it in Texas and since I live here I would pay an additional $577 for the sales tax. I am forced to buy from an out of state vendor and you out of staters can purchase from Texas. I honestly do try to support the local economy and we have a very nice Lecia dealer in Austin but $577 is a lot of other stuff. Yeah, like a Leica lens cleaning cloth or something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.