Shootist Posted October 7, 2009 Share #21 Posted October 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) With the M8 and M9, it is not TTL, it is GNC with pre-flash. It cannot TTL on the CCD which reflect light much more than film. And there is no TTL on the MP. Lucien Thanks for the info on the MP (never owned one), I was under the belief the MP had TTL because it was produced after the M6TTL and M7. As to TTL on the M8/9 (I always thought TTL meant Through The Lens). Call it what you want it is still taking a reading of the available light with preflash Through The Lens and the camera is communicating with the flash to fire at output X. No other flash can do that, yet, with the M's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Hi Shootist, Take a look here ReidReview review of Leica SF58 Flash Unit. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share #22 Posted October 7, 2009 If you're using the SF 58 then all you need is the Nikon cord that I talked about in that review. The adapters come into play with the Metz flashes. The more I learn about all this the more I think the SF 58 is really the best way to go if one wants the most versatile functionality. Cheers, Sean You're breaking my heart: I love my Metz! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 7, 2009 Share #23 Posted October 7, 2009 With the eTTL, the flash is taking its reading based on light reflected on the metering strip (on the shutter). I discuss this in more detail in the review. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share #24 Posted October 7, 2009 With the eTTL, the flash is taking its reading based on light reflected on the metering strip (on the shutter). I discuss this in more detail in the review. Cheers, Sean Got it. When you mentioned pre-flash, I speed-read past the part where you said it happened so fast that you didn't notice the time between the flashes. Very cool. After I get my Lightsphere, maybe I'll also get a 58 to use as backup instead of my creaky Vivitar 283 (that I always have to use an HSHS with!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amedick Posted October 7, 2009 Share #25 Posted October 7, 2009 The Metz sca flashes can be setup using Metz remote mode where a master on camera controls a remote Metz slave through a pseudo ttl like link, which seems to work well. With a friends SF-58, Could not get the Metz remote to work, it is not supported and no mention in manual of Sf-58. I could get all combinations of 40mz2, 54mz5, 76mz4 and sca 3083 working together, but mothing with the Leica sf58. These were my conclusions.. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 7, 2009 Share #26 Posted October 7, 2009 You're breaking my heart: I love my Metz! Well if it is already working well for you then why change? Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 7, 2009 Share #27 Posted October 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Got it. When you mentioned pre-flash, I speed-read past the part where you said it happened so fast that you didn't notice the time between the flashes. Very cool. After I get my Lightsphere, maybe I'll also get a 58 to use as backup instead of my creaky Vivitar 283 (that I always have to use an HSHS with!). It happens so fast only Superman could notice it. One has no sense that more than one flash has taken place. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 7, 2009 Share #28 Posted October 7, 2009 As to TTL on the M8/9 (I always thought TTL meant Through The Lens). Call it what you want it is still taking a reading of the available light with preflash Through The Lens and the camera is communicating with the flash to fire at output X. No other flash can do that, yet, with the M's. You are right, it is Through The Lens. But the reading is not made during the exposure but before, on the shutter blades. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 7, 2009 Share #29 Posted October 7, 2009 I could get all combinations of 40mz2, 54mz5, 76mz4 and sca 3083 working together, but mothing with the Leica sf58. Maybe because of the pre-flash. Can you make several Metz working together in GNC mode with an M8? Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted October 8, 2009 Share #30 Posted October 8, 2009 I'm confused: both Bill and Sean seem to be describing the same ttl functionality: a pre-flash to calculate appropriate flash power followed by the actual flash. The difference is that Bill says the delay is large, leading to poor pictures, while Sean says there is no perceptible delay and therefore no such problem. Is it the conclusion that the Leica and Metz flashes do the same thing, but the former does it faster? That is strange if true (which certainly doesn't preclude it from being true!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted October 8, 2009 Share #31 Posted October 8, 2009 I have never been a big flash user. I had an SF20 that I recently sold. I bought the SF58 when it first came out and for me......it is idiot proof flash when I need it. Straight on or bounce it does the job. Of course I am not making a living from shooting so my results may not be up to others standards. Again, I am an idiot at flash but smarter with the SF58...!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 8, 2009 Share #32 Posted October 8, 2009 I'm confused: both Bill and Sean seem to be describing the same ttl functionality: a pre-flash to calculate appropriate flash power followed by the actual flash. The difference is that Bill says the delay is large, leading to poor pictures, while Sean says there is no perceptible delay and therefore no such problem. Is it the conclusion that the Leica and Metz flashes do the same thing, but the former does it faster? That is strange if true (which certainly doesn't preclude it from being true!). Bill is talking about his Metz flash and I am talking about the SF58. They're two different animals apparently. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted October 8, 2009 Share #33 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) Bill is talking about his Metz flash and I am talking about the SF58. They're two different animals apparently. Cheers, Sean Thanks Sean, but I already understood that you were talking about two different flashes. My point was that from what I see they're not *very* different animals. They are both capable of working in ttl with the M8/M9 (where ttl here means metering through the lens but off the shutter curtain). In this regard they are very similar animals. But oddly, based on your reports, one is simply a gimpy animal that doesn't move as quickly as his close cousin when performing this one function. I wouldn't expect that kind of difference. I wouldn't be surprised if the Metz simply couldn't do ttl. But given that it can, what could be slowing it down? Edited October 8, 2009 by dalippe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 8, 2009 Share #34 Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks Sean, but I already understood that you were talking about two different flashes. My point was that from what I see they're not *very* different animals. They are both capable of working in ttl with the M8/M9 (where ttl here means metering through the lens but off the shutter curtain). In this regard they are very similar animals. But oddly, based on your reports, one is simply a gimpy animal that doesn't move as quickly as his close cousin when performing this one function. I wouldn't expect that kind of difference. I wouldn't be surprised if the Metz simply couldn't do ttl. But given that it can, what could be slowing it down? I haven't tested any Metz flashes on the Leica DRFs so, for now, I can only speak to how the SF58 performs. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted October 8, 2009 Share #35 Posted October 8, 2009 Sean, In your review you mention the HSS setting of the SF-58. So it actually works with the M9? At what speeds did you test it? How does it impact the power of the flash? I am asking because I am still waiting for my M9 and I haven't been able find out any details re M9 and HSS online. My e-mail inquiry to Leica has to date not been answered. Thanks a lot -- Love your reviews Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amedick Posted October 8, 2009 Share #36 Posted October 8, 2009 Maybe because of the pre-flash. Can you make several Metz working together in GNC mode with an M8? Lucien Lucien, the Metz remote "cordless" mode does not work with the pre-flash. I could not make the Metz flashes work together in GNC mode. Sorry, my message was not so clear, put together on an iPhone. The way I got the Metz flashes to work together was by having a "master" Metz flash mounted on the M8, in master / A mode, and the remote flashes in "slave" / TTL mode using the 3083 on the 54MZ4 or 40 Mz2 or the 70Mz standalone (it has built in functionality). In a nutshell the M8 and master interacted with each other in a classic "A" mode, while the remote flashes interacting with the master in the m8 in a cordless TTL mode (infrared pulses), cutting their output when signaled by the master on M8. Worked quite well, even when I hid the remote falsh behind object. The conclusion, and relevence to this thread, "the SF-58 does not work with the classic Metz Remote system", they look very similar (on the flash LCD's), act similar but are not compatible. I was thinking about buying a SF58 along these lines. It seems for this firmware at least, you need to use all SF-58 or all Metz if you want to try using the cordless infrared seutps, no mixing at this point of time. Some other conclusions I came to - to expensive for me to go the route of two SF58's. - the Metz remote material says that it was designed to sync the remote flashes at 1/60. I could consistently fire with M8 at 1/125 and 1/180. It also worked at 1/250, though did not try this enough to say it consistently works. - boy is the terminology in the industry, and with Metz & Leica confusing when it comes to flash, especially the way TTL, cordless, wireless, and automatic is used. It is sometime referred to in a context of a concept, other times like a protocol. -Would be nice if "Metz" created itself a niche and made their new flashes "pocket wizzard" enabled. -Wish the 76MZ series had a simple bracket / socket to mount on a tripo or lighting stand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 8, 2009 Share #37 Posted October 8, 2009 Sean, In your review you mention the HSS setting of the SF-58. So it actually works with the M9? At what speeds did you test it? How does it impact the power of the flash? I am asking because I am still waiting for my M9 and I haven't been able find out any details re M9 and HSS online. My e-mail inquiry to Leica has to date not been answered. Thanks a lot -- Love your reviews Thanks Roey. That's a great question. I hadn't used that mode but I just tried it and added the following to the review: "Though Leica states, in the SF58 manual, that this flash is capable of working in HSS mode that mode option did not appear as an option when I mounted the flash to an M8.2 or M9." Assuming that the sample I'm testing is working normally, it may be that HSS is available when the SF58 is mounted on some Leica cameras but not others. I have not yet discovered any way that it can be activated on the DRFs. According to the manual, it apparently appears as a mode option when it is available. I don't have an S2 or R9 at hand to try it on. If anyone has found a way to enable HSS with one of the Leica DRFs, let me know. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabriel Posted October 8, 2009 Share #38 Posted October 8, 2009 Page 56 of the Leica SF58 manual states that HSS will only work with the Leica R9 and not with the M8/M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 8, 2009 Share #39 Posted October 8, 2009 Page 56 of the Leica SF58 manual states that HSS will only work with the Leica R9 and not with the M8/M9 Right you are - thank you. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennB Posted October 8, 2009 Share #40 Posted October 8, 2009 It happens so fast only Superman could notice it. One has no sense that more than one flash has taken place. Sean, I have a M8 and a SF-24D and I'm Hoping that the SF-58 works better (Much better!) than the SF-24D ?!? The 24D's preflash is just as strong as the actual exposure flash and will cause subjects to blink during the exposure thus rendering the "TTL" function useless. Please tell me that (for around $600 US) this is not the case for the SF-58 ! Glenn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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