Who hasn't bought an M9 and why?

[george_b]

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I on the waiting list of my local dealer, who knows when it will arrive? I am reminded of the phrase "if you can make a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to you door".

Maybe it will M9.1 or M9.2 before mine arrives, I am waiting eagerly to burn a hole on my credit card. Seems a bit like 'waiting for godot'

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[PeterP]

Let me see where to start:

The images I have seen so far are very impressive, I am envious.

However that said, basic economics dictates the rest.

I shoot w/ 2 systems Canon & Leica. Leica by choice when I can(and I have to stress 'when I can'), Canon otherwise.

2 Leica bodies would be $14K, I would have to buy an 18mm viewfinder, probably a new 24mm since my 18 would be to wide. Sell my M8 for a next to nothing (paid $5.4k), and all those useless UV/IR filters. I think I'm looking close to $20k, and Canon upgrades coming up. since I don't mind the crop, and have lenses tailored to that I am probably better off just buying a demo M8 so that I have a second body.

My original 5D cost $3600, my 5D mkII cost $2600, I expect that the 1D mk IV will also cost less than what I paid for my 1D mkIII initially. Most technology tends to work that way. With modern digital cameras you invest in the lenses, the bodies upgrade every few years.

With Leica, it is like buying a new Rolex every few years, they raise the price irrespective of the market. Digital cameras are not for a lifetime, they are only a measure of the current technology. I expect to upgrade my Canons every 3-4 years, but with Leica I will probably be looking to buy the last generation.

This is not intended to disparage the product, merely to point out that current pricing does put the camera out of range for a good number of photographers.

 

cheers

[Guest AgXlove]

I have not bought an M9.

 

Why? Three reasons -

1: I don't have $7000US + S/I "extra" lounging aobut.

2: U.S. dealers don't have them yet.

3: Still decicing if I'd rather have an M9 or a 21mm f/1.4 ASPH and $1000 worth of Tri-X for my MP...

[gjames9142]

For the past 25 years I have somehow managed to support myself from my personal work, although I occasionally have to pinch myself because I can't quite believe it. I have done books with cameras ranging from 8/10 to a Kodak Panoram, and at the moment am working with a variety of MF -- Mamiya 7ii, Noblexes, Wideangle Rollei TLR. Since I don't have to please clients I don't have any digital gear except for a scanner to make JPEGS. I usually work in black and white, although I have on occasion worked in colour. I have been eyeing digital gear for some time -- the 5Dmk11 looked interesting, although it is bulky and the lenses aren't the greatest. The remarkable Richard Benson has done incredible work with a Canon with non Canon lenses and a printing system that throws away all the manufacturers' programs, and starts from scratch, passing paper through the printer more than once. His are the only colour prints that I admire unreservedly, though I love Eggleston's dye-transfers and Joel Sternfeld's work, too. The M9 is really tempting, although the real problem is not the price of a body, which is within my range, but the powerful dedicated computer and good screen, as well as the whole printing setup, not to mention the learning curve of starting from zero. I do have a down-to-the-brass M4 with a Canadian 35 Summicron -- I would probably need only one other lens, a 28 Elmarit. Anyway, I am going to wait. It is far too early to expect a serious body of work from this camera -- cats and girl friends and those generic photographs known as scenics don't cut it for me, but I am going take the camera for a walk as soon as I can get my hands on one -- probably in a week or two. I also don't think you can really tell much from a computer screen, anyway. But these threads are occasionally illuminating and I m grateful for being able to pick up useful scraps of information.

 

Geoffrey James, Toronto

[hoppyman]

Geoffrey, welcome to the Forum. I'll look foward to some occasionally illuminating contributions from you too

I think that you are talking about a shift to an entirely digital workflow. That is not M9 unique of course. Rather larger subjects.

For the past 25 years I have somehow managed to support myself from my personal work, although I occasionally have to pinch myself because I can't quite believe it. I have done books with cameras ranging from 8/10 to a Kodak Panoram, and at the moment am working with a variety of MF -- Mamiya 7ii, Noblexes, Wideangle Rollei TLR. Since I don't have to please clients I don't have any digital gear except for a scanner to make JPEGS. I usually work in black and white, although I have on occasion worked in colour. I have been eyeing digital gear for some time -- the 5Dmk11 looked interesting, although it is bulky and the lenses aren't the greatest. The remarkable Richard Benson has done incredible work with a Canon with non Canon lenses and a printing system that throws away all the manufacturers' programs, and starts from scratch, passing paper through the printer more than once. His are the only colour prints that I admire unreservedly, though I love Eggleston's dye-transfers and Joel Sternfeld's work, too. The M9 is really tempting, although the real problem is not the price of a body, which is within my range, but the powerful dedicated computer and good screen, as well as the whole printing setup, not to mention the learning curve of starting from zero. I do have a down-to-the-brass M4 with a Canadian 35 Summicron -- I would probably need only one other lens, a 28 Elmarit. Anyway, I am going to wait. It is far too early to expect a serious body of work from this camera -- cats and girl friends and those generic photographs known as scenics don't cut it for me, but I am going take the camera for a walk as soon as I can get my hands on one -- probably in a week or two. I also don't think you can really tell much from a computer screen, anyway. But these threads are occasionally illuminating and I m grateful for being able to pick up useful scraps of information.

 

Geoffrey James, Toronto

[gjames9142]

Geoff,

 

There is no way I will switch entirely -- the pleasures of enlarging from 8/10 negatives is too great, so I would have to have two systems going. The people whose facility I use to make prints larger than 24 inches have been trying to convince me use their chromira system, but frankly I don't think it's as good. It can look perfect, but without soul. I had lunch with Tod Papageorge in Rome this summer and he was shooting with an M8 or M8.2, a first for him, and I look forward to seeing what he got. Do you know about Richard Benson's work? He had a wonderful didactic show at MOMA in New York this year, The Printed Picture, a history of printing techniques, and at the beginning was an incredible photograph of a fruit-laden apple tree under snow that completely changed my thinking about colour prints. It is his own system, and if I were 30 years younger I would go and work for him for free for six months and try to learn something. The Printed Picture The Museum of Modern Art, New York By Richard Benson

[jaapv]

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My dealer says I can't get one until Christmas or beyond. So I will continue to have fun with my M8, and save like crazy. Do you think my wife could tell the difference between a M8 & M9, just by looking? As always, the advice in these forums is outstanding!! Enjoy!! Jim

Depends on the wife, I suppose. Mine hasn't noticed my camera changed from silver to black -or pretends to .

[tmickan]

i was hoping that they would remove the lcd altogether

[stevme]

I haven't bought one yet, but will when funds permit. By that time, early growing pains should be sorted out.

 

Right now my M8 is going with me, along with the 28 "pancake" lens, the 15 mm CV and the 35 mm sumilux on a sea voyage, and I hope to bring back some stunning files. The whole kit will be easy to carry around as compared to my Canon gear and offer more versatility than the handy little Lumix LX-1 with its Leica glass (although I may relent and take it too).

 

My plan is to keep the M8, using the M9 for wider lenses.

 

I hope the lucky M9 owners will be sharing files with us to see.

[dsaxe]

I had switched from my Leica M7 to a canon 5D digital about 5 years ago and although I like the Canon, I always missed using my Leica. I can't wait to get my hands on one. I have one on order but who knows when it will arrive. I saw a video recently showing production, I cannot imagine them turning out more than 100 units/day.

[BKK dan]

I'd love to buy the M9, the funds are not the issue, but I trust Leica will produce the "more proper" M9 without the cheap LCD display in a not too distant future.

 

Yes, I could upgrade later on, but I prefer the proper thing ex factory.

 

And for the additional money I'd had to pay for the upgrade I can have some other gear meanwhile.

 

I'm not under pressure, good things can wait. I just don't like to compromise with the screen, a true dealbreaker for me.

 

A dealer in Switzerland yesterday emailed me that if I'd order now the camera is here by year's end, meaning a waiting period of around three months.

 

I guess by early 2010 most people who want an M9 have it by then, the assembly lines of Leica are more quiet again and they'll introduce a separate model.

 

I actually sent Stefan Daniel an email, he answered that "depending on demand" there will be a solution, but nothing's planned yet.

 

I bet they get many emails suggesting strong demand ...

[exile]

I haven't bought an M9. The attraction is not nearly as strong as a jump from a dSLR or a film rangefinder to the first digital M.

People talk about the M8 being revolutionary, and the M9 being evolutionary. I bought an M8 as soon as I could afford one because it had the perfect handling and size/form factor I wanted, coupled with a perfectly acceptable digital sensor (I do not have space or time for a wet darkroom). The M9 does not give me anything extra that I need over the M8: I already have access to great M glass and a small high quality camera with intuitive controls.

* Full frame versus crop is not a debate I have any interest in - sure, the M9 allows faster wide angle lenses, but focussing and framing are not unified in the same viewfinder, so fast wides on a rangefinder are compromised to some degree; obviously I'd need to try it I before passing final judgement on the practicality or otherwise of this fact, but it is a concern for me. On the other hand, I love the CV15 on the M8 for discreet street shooting; is the almost as small CV21/4 as good in the corners as the edge of the CV15 image circle on the M8? I bet it isn't. But let's leave that one for Sean.

* At the telephoto end, the 135/4TE is a nice 180/4 on my M8, but on the M9 it becomes a very heavy and slow 135mm by anyone's standards. (Granted, you can just crop to M8 size files on the M9 and not loose anything, but there's no clear advantage other than freedom to crop).

* The M9 sensor has more pixels, but I never print particularly big and have enough hard drive storrage problems as it is.

* Likewise, the uncompressed DNG files do sound VERY attractive (I'll wait for some good samples to peruse), but at the cost of read/write times, battery life and storrage space on cards and hard drives.

* The M9 is said to have about 1 stop noise advantage when the images are downsized to M8 files - this is an advantage, no doubt, but I just bought a very cheap and very good Canon 50/1.2ltm for a teeeeny fraction of the price of an M9 and just love the signature. Using this lens in daylight for shallow dof I find that I need the 1/8000 shutter - it looks like the M9 offers me a botched ISO80 as compensation, but that gives lower dynamic range by deliberate overexposure in the exact conditions I'd be most worried about blown highlights.

* Along with everyone else, I do value the top LCD on the M8.

* I would love to have direct access to ISO and be able to adjust it in 1/3rd stop increments... but that is absolutely not worth the extra cost of the M9. The justification for the M9 should be the new sensor and imaging hardware, but so far I'm just not persuaded to the tune of 6,000USD.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

I think I'll wait for a bigger step up in ISO performance. I can't think of anything else that would induce me to buy another M.

 

Slightly off topic, but a question to the collectors: do you think that in 20 yrs time an M8 will hold more collector value than an M9 because it was the first digital M? I don't really care myself, because my M8 is being used on a daily basis and I don't expect it to be "minty" for ever.... I'm just curious...

[UliWer]

...Slightly off topic, but a question to the collectors: do you think that in 20 yrs time an M8 will hold more collector value than an M9 because it was the first digital M? I don't really care myself, because my M8 is being used on a daily basis and I don't expect it to be "minty" for ever.... I'm just curious...

 

I am sure that this will depend only on produced numbers. The version with the lowest production rate will have the highest price, and collectors will make differences between the original version of the M8, the upgraded one and the M8.2 - and of course between black and chrome versions. As we don't know about the produced numbers of each version and of course not about the M9, this is all up to speculation

 

The highest price you could exspect though would be the original M8 with the very first version of firmware .

[UliWer]

i was hoping that they would remove the lcd altogether

 

Same here. I hate the comments like: "Oh, I didn't know that old Leicas already had a screen...."

[Shootist]

i was hoping that they would remove the lcd altogether

Impossible to do on any digital camera. Or don't you get that you need some type of screen to set, change and check certain functions on the camera.

At least for most users to actually buy and use the camera.

 

What may good for you will not be good for others and the company making the product.

 

This has got to be the most short sighted remark ever posted on this or other forums.

[tmickan]

hmm, spend $11 000 on a camera that will be worth $ 2 000 in five years! i'll pass on that one. now if the images were as good as what i can get with my film m's, i might consider it, but i'm loving the convenience of shooting film, especially for my weddings.

[sblutter]

Canons: 5DM2 gives me equal IQ, G11 gives me street quickness, and lightweight stealth with acceptable results.

 

That said, if 9's were in stock I would have given in to temptation by now.

 

Cooling off period caused current strategy: wait for 9.2 or even 10 with 0.72 RF w/ sapphire, sensor cleaning & better high ISO!

 

Eventual 10 should be enough camera for years considering the astonishing quality of the 6 foot tall prints I've had made from the 5DM2.

 

(That is, until I run into an avail. 9 one day next year! )

 

Can't wait to see what Sooky w/converter & DR glass produces - argh!

[franjer]

I'm afraid I don't know enough about photography to make best use of it. Frustratingly, I do already know that I want a high-quality, digital, full-format camera that is as small as possible...Mmmm9:rolleyes:

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[JHAG]

I don't think Leica's pricing is, like for instance Apple's,

with hefty margin insuring top customer service and new products

or upgrades at a fast pace.

Limited high-tech craft industry goes along with high prices.

That said, I bought my M8 new in january 2008 from a Leica dealer

for a price 30 % lower than catalog price. I expect I'll do the same

in a year from now or even less with the M9.

[epand56]

I didn't buy one, first of all because I'm way short in funds (I've invested in lenses) and second because I'm waiting for a second series with the troubles fixed up. Third I'm no guy born to stay in a waiting list. Will buy one when I can get into a shop, point for it and get out with the camera in my hands after paying the due.