thrid Posted September 7, 2009 Share #141 Posted September 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ah..... Now, think about all the people who say the same thing about (only) 5MP, not enough buffer and a crappy EVF. You hear them and you smile to yourself thinking... "if they only understood... if they only knew what I know.... they just don't get it." My point is, it's not about specific specifications (within reason)... it's about the "brush"... the camera in your hands. I'm betting this is a camera with a heart and soul. That's what will make you want to use it. I could care less about the focal length. It's a good focal length and it will be a great piece of glass. And, f/2.8 will be fine. It's going have a nice bokeh... not as much as a 24 on a full frame M8... but way more than your Digulux 2. This camera should have a soul and the photos you take will reflect it. Remember it's just a brush. What stands between us and greatness is between our ears, not in our camera bag. Seriously, I have a feeling this is going to be a must have camera. Are you for real? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 Hi thrid, Take a look here X1 discussion thread (merged). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bussta Posted September 7, 2009 Share #142 Posted September 7, 2009 If the leaked images are real, then I wonder why they haven't included manual analogue ring on the lens for aperture? there is one on the top for shutter speed, surely adding one for aperture on the lens would be an awesome idea? save you having to dig into menus on the back all the time to change the aperture? there seems to be some sort of ring, presume for focus? The Digilux 2 had this and made you feel as though it was an old analogue camera with the convenience of digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
integrale Posted September 7, 2009 Share #143 Posted September 7, 2009 When I use my older manual focus lenses on my Nikon D300, I set the aperture directly on the lense - very nice and convenient! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 7, 2009 Share #144 Posted September 7, 2009 Funny, it wasn't so long ago that there were numerous fixed lens full frame 35mm film compacts on the market, and they were very popular with photographers wanting compact but high quality 'carry everywhere' or back up cameras. There were zoom lens P&S cameras too, but the lenses were slower and generally not as good quality wise. Leica appear to have finally addressed a gap in the market which they are ideally suited to - compact camera with high quality lens (OK there's the Sigma but that seems to have fallen short of expectations). If you are out and about with your X1 and want to shoot a portrait? Try getting closer! I'm interested to see how they address the viewfinder issue however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 7, 2009 Share #145 Posted September 7, 2009 I find the Leica X1 more exciting than the M9. I have been an early adopter of the M8, and still like it and have it. It has currently more than 25000 shutter actuations on it, and have been a Leica M shooter since 1989 or so, having had multiple M cameras and shooting at least a frame each day since that date. So, I consider myself no novice in Leica M shooting. But this X1 looks like a new concept to me, and a seducing one too. If this camera costs around uss 2500, has a CMOS sensor delivering IQ and High ISOs similar to the one in the Canon 7D (there have already been rumours lately about Leica and Canon "collaboration"), has a fast and reliable AF, stunning optics (which seems to be the case), and is sturdy and silent, thi might be the perfect reportage camera. In the days of analog film PJ, each photog had his little M2, M3 or M6 inside the Domke waiting for the Pulitzer pic or for their personal projects... This X1 could be the honorable heir to that tradition, and as such, be a real winning card in Leica's hand. Canon seems unlikely, they are not exactly Leica-friendly. Otoh, ZI has retired from the list of DRF aspirants, so Sony might be willing to incorporate their cutting-edge CMos sensor in a Leica camera. Dr. Spiller presumably knows the right people there from his Zeiss days. Does it come in APS-C? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 7, 2009 Share #146 Posted September 7, 2009 Are you for real? If you have something to say, man-up and say it. Otherwise.... well, it doesn't matter, you've already demonstrated your true character. So... just go away. I'm VERY for real... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchs Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share #147 Posted September 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) @ mark norton: Do you think Leica might have transferred some parts the M8 electronics to the X1? IMHO the module "sensor+board" could be "recycled". New should be the lens (plus AF) and the collapsible flash - which, as I guess from the leaked pictures, seems to be in the place where the M8 had its rangefinder. So: Do we have an re-packed M8 with AF and fixed lens? Regards, Stefan I hope they not!!! Really, M8 is a fine camera, maybe the finest I own, but it is 2006 technology. OTOH, the X1 is stated as a 1.5X crop APS-C CMOS sensor, whilst the M8 is a 1.33X crop, APS-H CCD sensor. There will be surely a difference in image processors, other boards, etc. I prefer to have a completely new camera, benefiting from S2 and M9 technologies, as Leica's CEO has said. I hope the only part they'll transplant form the M8 is the red dot... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchs Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share #148 Posted September 7, 2009 Hi, Is it just me, or does the picture of the X1 in the M9 cataloguehave a viewfinder brightness sensor window, on the left side of the lens What do you think? Regards, Peter46 That little round window intrigues me too... Could it be an AF aiding LED, a white balance sensor, etc. What are your bets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 7, 2009 Share #149 Posted September 7, 2009 If the leaked images are real, then I wonder why they haven't included manual analogue ring on the lens for aperture? Probably to make the lens as flat as possible? there is one on the top for shutter speed, surely adding one for aperture on the lens would be an awesome idea? Judging from the "CAD" photo that is floating around, they did have this awesome idea, but the dial is on the top... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 7, 2009 Share #150 Posted September 7, 2009 Canon seems unlikely, they are not exactly Leica-friendly. Really? I wasn't aware of that. Is there a story behind this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick parker Posted September 7, 2009 Share #151 Posted September 7, 2009 Even if X1 has all of the good qualities we are hoping for it still would not be groundbreaking. IMHO a groundbreaking camera should present something new. It may very well be an excellent camera but so far i don't see the signs of anything original. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted September 7, 2009 Share #152 Posted September 7, 2009 Even if X1 has all of the good qualities we are hoping for it still would not be groundbreaking. IMHO a groundbreaking camera should present something new.It may very well be an excellent camera but so far i don't see the signs of anything original. What else do we need? What would be groundbreaking? Frown detection? A camera with built in social networking that tells us when other Leica users are nearby? Twitter integration where the camera sends out "tweets" every time you snap a photo? No thanks. I'd rather have a simple camera with manual controls that has excellent image quality and the X1 looks to be it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hektor6644 Posted September 7, 2009 Share #153 Posted September 7, 2009 Hi: I finally got hold of the leaked PDF Leica brochure on the M-System. It answered a lot of questions, but raised a lot of others. Wednesday, 9th September is only less than three days away. We’ll see then. The brochure lists the M7, MP, and the M9 as part of the “M Cameras” in page 13. It seems that the M8 will be discontinued. In page 42, it has the D-Lux 4, X1, M9, and S2 as the “Leica Cameras.” I imagine that this will be the digital lineup. Therefore, it seems that the C-Lux, Digilux, V-Lux, and again the M8 will be discontinued. All the cameras are manufactured or assembled in Germany except for the D-Lux 4. I imagine that the D-Lux 5 will also be put together in Germany, but it is just speculation on my part. Many questions still remain regarding the X1, imho. The sensor is one of them. I do not think it is a Canon sensor. I believe that these sensors have a 1.6 crop. The 1.5 APS-C seems to indicate that it is the same sensors used by Nikon or Sony sensors. If it is Sony, something I do not know, will it be the new Exmor or older ones? The size of the camera seems to be between the D-Lux 4 and the M9. What about the Viewfinder? Is it an EVF or an external OVF? It seems too big of a camera not to have a built-in VF. I do not think is the same size of the D-Lux 4 or even a M4/3, but bigger. What is the market segment for the X1? It is huge, imho. Obviously, for people that want a Leica camera, but above all, the Leica optics, without having to outlay huge amount of money. This market not only includes people getting into photography, but also everyone else, imho. I am a Nikon shooter that got the D-Lux 4 for the camera I take everywhere with me, clipped to my belt, even to work. However, I always wanted to have a real Leica camera and I believe that my feelings are universal. Who does not want a real Leica RF with the Leica optics even as the other camera? The main problem has been the money. Since I do not shoot film, $6,000 is way too much for me to invest in a digital camera since they become obsolete in ~ 3 years. If I had the M8 with several M Lenses, I would be facing the pressure to upgrade to the M9 and another $7,000. The M8 will not hold the value as the film cameras do, imho. The other problems are the headaches associated with the RF’s and the price of the Leica Lenses. However, it seems that the X1 has addressed these issues and it is beginning to look like a Leica very popular and useful (24mm f/2.8 or ~35mm) prime lens with a camera attached to it; it is the ideal camera Leica camera for people that have other systems. Therefore, it has been streamlined to reduce cost, imho. In other words, one lens, one camera, and one VF. My biggest problem with the X1 is that I have the Zeiss Distagon ZF 35 f/2 T*. If I get the X1, it will cut into the use of the ZF 35, a lens I really love. I wish that Leica would have come out with the X1 a year or so ago, before I finished with my lens lineup. Therefore, I am not ruling it out, but I have to think very seriously about it, answer all my questions, and read the reviews. This process starts this coming Wednesday. However, I'll tell you a secret. I really want a Leica - it is a matter of time and finding the money - whether it makes sense or not Best Regards, Ramesses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicpeh Posted September 7, 2009 Share #154 Posted September 7, 2009 Many questions still remain regarding the X1, imho. The sensor is one of them. I do not think it is a Canon sensor. I believe that these sensors have a 1.6 crop. The 1.5 APS-C seems to indicate that it is the same sensors used by Nikon or Sony sensors. If it is Sony, something I do not know, will it be the new Exmor or older ones? Maybe the X1 uses the same new Exmor sensor as the A500??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hektor6644 Posted September 7, 2009 Share #155 Posted September 7, 2009 Maybe the X1 uses the same new Exmor sensor as the A500??? Hi: It makes sense, but I do not know. One reason to think about the Exmor sensor is the f/2.8 maximum aperture with the X1. I have both the D300 and D700. The APS-C Sony sensor 12.1 MP that comes with the D300 is noisy, specially inside or low-light. However, f/2.8 is the maximum aperture that the big guns Nikon zooms come with. That is why I got the D700. A maximum f/2 is a must and a minimum, imho, unless it is the Exmor. Best Regards, Ramesses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hektor6644 Posted September 7, 2009 Share #156 Posted September 7, 2009 Hi: My original message is gone, for some reason. I might have done something when I edited it to correct some mistakes. Therefore, here it is again. I finally got hold of the leaked PDF Leica brochure on the M-System: It answered a lot of questions, but raised a lot of others. Wednesday, 9th September is only less than three days away. We’ll see then. Many questions still remain regarding the X1, imho. The sensor is one of them. I do not think it is a Canon sensor. I believe that these sensors have a 1.6 crop. The 1.5 APS-C seems to indicate that it is the same sensors used by Nikon, Sony. If it is Sony, something I do not know, will it be the new Exmor or older ones? The size of the camera seems to be between the D-Lux 4 and the M9. What about the Viewfinder? Is it an EVF or external OVF? It seems too big of a camera not to have a built-in VF. I do not think is the same size of the D-Lux 4 or even a M4/3. What is the market segment for the X1? It is huge, imho. Obviously, for people that want a Leica camera, but above all, the Leica optics, without having to outlay huge amount of money. This market not only includes people getting into photography, but also everyone else, imho. I am a Nikon shooter that got the D-Lux 4 for the camera I take everywhere, clipped to my belt, even to work. However, I always wanted to have a real Leica camera. Make no mistake about – it is the camera and optics, at least for me. The main problem has been the money. Since I do not shoot film, $6,000 is way too much for me to invest in a digital camera since they become obsolete in ~ 3 years. If I had the M8 with several M Lenses, I would be facing the pressure to upgrade to the M9 and another $7,000. The M8 will not hold the value as the film cameras do, imho. The other problems are the headaches associated with the RF’s and the price of the Leica Lenses. However, it seems that the X1 has addressed these issues and it is beginning to look like a Leica a very popular and useful (24mm f/2.8 or ~35mm) prime lens with a camera attached to it. In other words, it is the ideal camera Leica camera for people that have other systems; it has been streamlined to reduce cost, imho. My biggest problem with the X1 is that I have the Zeiss Distagon ZF 35 f/2. If I get the X1, it will cut into the use of the ZF 35, a lens I really love. I wish that Leica would have come out with the X1 a year or so ago, before I finish with my lens lineup. Therefore, I am not ruling it out, but I have to think very seriously about it, answer all my questions, and read the reviews. This process starts this coming Wednesday. However, I’ll tell you a secret – I really want a Leica – it is a matter of time and finding the money, whether it makes sense or not . Best Regards, Ramesses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted September 7, 2009 Share #157 Posted September 7, 2009 ....I'd rather have a simple camera with manual controls that has excellent image quality and the X1 looks to be it. Well, I am not sure. I cannot recognise any manual focussing on the first leaked images of the X1. Does anybody have more information? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick parker Posted September 7, 2009 Share #158 Posted September 7, 2009 What else do we need? What would be groundbreaking? Frown detection? A camera with built in social networking that tells us when other Leica users are nearby? Twitter integration where the camera sends out "tweets" every time you snap a photo? No thanks. I'd rather have a simple camera with manual controls that has excellent image quality and the X1 looks to be it. Hello J I think you misunderstood me. I meant what will be so markedly innovative about X1. Using the words Leica and groundbreaking within the same sentence should point to something more than a smart compact with a good sensor. This is hardly a big step. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 7, 2009 Share #159 Posted September 7, 2009 A smart (in American and Engish) compact with a VERY good sensor, that is a big step. And that is still the question, since I will not buy Micro 4/3, whereas a fast one with a 1.5x crop I order in less than 48 hours, if the price is reasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 7, 2009 Share #160 Posted September 7, 2009 Well, I am not sure. I cannot recognise any manual focussing on the first leaked images of the X1. Does anybody have more information? My understanding of the short text in the brochure was that you can focus manually, probably by rotating the lens. Keep in mind that the picture of the X1 you're talking about very likely shows a mock-up or the result of a CAD application. (Compare with what you can see in the brochure.) I don't think in real life the lens will look like that. Just guessing, though. One more day and we'll know for sure... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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