Whose Buying???

[LeicaS2]

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Based on the negativity in the other thread concerning S2 pricing, it would be suicidal for some one to post here that they are going to buy an S2. They would be thrashed and nothing good would come of it. Sad but true.

 

Mark Gowin

 

 

Well Mark, I am not suicidal*, but I am happy to admit I am one of many on David's list for a S2 and also ordering a 35mm and a 120mm . I would not have wanted a "free" 70mm kit. I am not being asked to take actual delivery until I hear that the quality is as superb as I expect, so it is not as if I am buying it totally blind.

 

I sell larger and larger phtographs to corporations. While they don't care what brand equipment I use, they do care about the quality, as do I. This S2 will be replacing a 6x7 film SLR. and a full frame DSLR. If I were already into digital MF I would still be interested in the S2 but I would then have legacy issues that some of you have. Frankly I might have been into some other digital MF by now, but Leica's timely announcement postponed such a purchase.

 

As has been discussed, large prints can justify large sensors. Fortunately large prints can also justify large prices. For those of you who wish for lower prices on an S2, hey, so do I, but then so do my buyers. For those of you who have good alternatives at a lower price, be glad.

 

Thanks to David for providing good information to the forum and keeping his cool while doing it. I hope the orders you have gotten are a suitable reward.

Best,

S2

 

*Well actually Mark, I registered this new name a month ago to avoid just what you are warning me of.

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[wattsy]

Interesting how many who state that they are not interested in the S2 feel they have to point out that this doesn't mean that they cannot afford to buy one.

[plasticman]

Interesting how many who state that they are not interested in the S2 feel they have to point out that this doesn't mean that they cannot afford to buy one.

 

I'd like to point out that I'm not interested in buying the S2 and I can't afford one.

 

PS: I don't own any sort of Porsche either - but if I did, I'm sure there would be a picture of it in this post.

[R10dreamer]

I'd like to point out that I'm not interested in buying the S2 and I can't afford one.

 

PS: I don't own any sort of Porsche either - but if I did, I'm sure there would be a picture of it in this post.

 

funny

[AlanJW]

Wilfredo: Not buying now and not any time soon. As an amateur, a $23,000 camera plus who knows how many $$$ for lenses is not a sensible proposition. I did get to handle the S2 (prototype) at the photo show in NY last Fall and I was extremely impressed. assuming it produces the kind of images it should produce with that sensor, I would want one. But I also would like to have a Ferrari, for the sheer enjoyment of having such a finely crafted machine.

 

Having an M8, and a 5Dmkii and an assortment of lenses, I am satisfied (I would consider a full frame M, which is for me a completely different proposition than a S2, as it would not require anything near the same kind of "investment")

 

If I win the lottery, all of the above (including the S2 and the Ferrari) are declared inoperative.

[delander †]

Interesting how many who state that they are not interested in the S2 feel they have to point out that this doesn't mean that they cannot afford to buy one.

 

I could afford one but I think it is awfully expensive (as is digital MF in general). Primarily I'm more interested in the successor to the M8 because I like using a RF camera and I use my Canon DSLRs only when absolutely necessary.

 

Of course I would like to try one just to see.

 

Jeff

[c6gowin]

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suicidal??? :eek::eek:

 

If someone gets even remotely depressed from an internet forum exchange I would be very surprised.

 

I didn't mean it in that context. I meant that anyone who posts that they plan to buy the S2 will probably be chastised and ridiculed. I don't see why anyone would subject themselves to that at this point (before all details are released). LeicaS2 is the brave one so far.

 

I am confident those who have pre-ordered the S2 are intelligent folks who have an out if the final specifications and product proof photos are not up to snuff. Getting on the S2 pre-order list is a very smart move for those that have determined the camera concept and intended performance parameters are right for them. If the camera lives up to expectations and the anticipated low volume production numbers hold true, then it could be a while before the S2 becomes available for those that didn't pre-order.

[leicanut2]

Interesting how this thread is going, I think there will be no issues with this camera as Leicas does not want a repeat of the internet bashing they got from a FEW who picked up the first few M8's. I bet they really tested the heck out of this camera. Now for me I really would want a long lens and a 1.4x or 2x and something around 400mm before I will consider buying. If this was the way I made a living I would have one on order. As I said being retired does make me think on where my cash goes, but it does not mean I could not get one. I will wait for the steam to go down and see what if any lenses they will come up with. For now its a no go.

Also there are people on here who own MANY Leicas of all kinds AND LENSES if they would add up there lenses and cameras it would be more than the S2 body costs. What scares many is it is alot at one time.

Jan

[earleygallery]

The S2 isn't aimed at the 'traditional' Leica customer, they are going for a new market sector, so it's hardly surprising that there aren't many here who are lining up to buy it.

 

From what I know about MF digital cameras the price looks to be in the ball park of the alternatives.

 

Lets use the old favorite car analogy, how many Mercedes car drivers are lining up to buy the latest Mercedes HGV ?

[lct]

I could be tempted if i could use my R lenses in full aperture metering with it but with S lenses the S2 is really too big and too expensive for me.

[KevinA]

It fits perfectly what I need in a camera, it's just what I want. But no way at those prices, I was holding off on more Canon lenses until this came around. Now I'm buying Canon primes, I would not be able to charge a penny more with the Leica than I can with my Canons.

I thought maybe £10-12k with a lens, but a S2 kit would be £30k with just one body.

If they have some great introductory offer I'll take another look, but it would need to be pretty fantastic, neither do I want to be a Guinea pig sorting out whatever issues it has.

If Leica would like me to test one for them I would be very happy.

 

Kevin.

[SteveYork]

Interesting how many who state that they are not interested in the S2 feel they have to point out that this doesn't mean that they cannot afford to buy one.

 

The rich stay wealthy by not making stupid investments. And buying an S2, unless you're making money with the camera, is probably not a wise investment.

[SteveYork]

The S2 isn't aimed at the 'traditional' Leica customer, they are going for a new market sector...

 

Yes, I think you succinctly hit it. And the "outrage" over price is just an expression of frustration at being cast aside by Leica.

 

But I think, if Leica tosses the R users to the side of the road, then the R users who want a DSLR should toss Leica to the other side of the road and go get a Nikon or Canon. I sincerely doubt that there will be a Leica based digital solution for R users or the amateur SLR user.

 

I think Leica has concluded that it can't compete w/ Nikon or Canon in the DSLR field, and it will limit itself to feeding the M market and creating a MF market. Wise or not, this is what their actions say, loud and clear.

[ken_tanaka]

 

...

 

I think Leica has concluded that it can't compete w/ Nikon or Canon in the DSLR field, and it will limit itself to feeding the M market and creating a MF market. Wise or not, this is what their actions say, loud and clear.

Absolutely, Steve.

 

We can debate whether or not pursuing these two small, and shrinking, niches is a good idea regardless of the qualities of the products Leica introduces. But Leica clearly believes that its best opportunities are at the fringes of the herd. It's hard to really argue with that strategy, although I still believe there were, and perhaps still are, more profitable and constructive opportunities in the sphere that Olympus has now created with the Pen E-P1 type of camera.

 

But I'm pointlessly digressing from the theme of the thread. Sorry.

[SJP]

The rich stay wealthy by not making stupid investments. And buying an S2, unless you're making money with the camera, is probably not a wise investment.

FWIW, the S2 is not outside the realms of possibilty for a a whole pile of people. But it is a major financial outlay that I guess most would decide is not for them. Either they are not interested, or they prefer to buy a VW golf, or the kids need to go to college or whatever. On the other hand many buy a caravan or a camper ..... (not me), or a second car .... (not me), or a second house ......, or a second wife....., and you could decide not to go on holiday, or painting the woodwork is postponed.

 

So what are we actually talking about? If you want one then buy one, if not don't. It is expensive but not in the ueber rich only category.

 

Returning to the point a camera is not an investment, in the case of Leica it is not a money drain either.

[tobey bilek]

The "solution" is too big and too expensive. I will never buy one, not even used, for even $2000. Not even if Santa dropped off a check for $75000

 

A slr R10 full frame digital would have been ok. EVF " stupid solution" is not an option.

 

Leica, your customer base is dying off and you are in deep doo doo and you come come up with something like this in the middle of a recession. Get REAL

[Jamie Roberts]

I'd buy, but I can't even afford an M9 let alone the S2. Sigh.

 

Seriously, the form factor is gorgeous and if I could have used my R glass, in whatever limited capability, then at least I could have subtracted the price of an R10 from it (it still would have been too expensive).

 

But if I won a lottery tomorrow, I'd be in line for one. It's a perfect high-end event cam in a lot of ways, being the size that it is (you know, if the IQ and the AF is up to snuff. I have no doubt the lenses will be stellar).

 

PS-for those of you who think it's overkill, I'd love to print a native resolution Lamba print (400ppi) at 30 * 40

[earleygallery]

Yes, I think you succinctly hit it. And the "outrage" over price is just an expression of frustration at being cast aside by Leica.

 

But I think, if Leica tosses the R users to the side of the road, then the R users who want a DSLR should toss Leica to the other side of the road and go get a Nikon or Canon. I sincerely doubt that there will be a Leica based digital solution for R users or the amateur SLR user.

 

I think Leica has concluded that it can't compete w/ Nikon or Canon in the DSLR field, and it will limit itself to feeding the M market and creating a MF market. Wise or not, this is what their actions say, loud and clear.

 

Steve, that's exactly how I read it. I hope the S2 is a huge success and who knows, if it's so, some way down the line Leica may re enter the DSLR market, but R users who must shoot digital will have probably moved on by then so it will be an even harder market for them to penetrate. R glass looks lovely with a Canon body though.

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[wildlightphoto]

I hope the S2 is a huge success and who knows, if it's so, some way down the line Leica may re enter the DSLR market, but R users who must shoot digital will have probably moved on by then so it will be an even harder market for them to penetrate. R glass looks lovely with a Canon body though.

 

I think Leica has seen the writing on the wall for the DSLR market. At least for small-format cameras EVIL will take over sooner or later. Resistance is futile.

[johnastovall]

Steve, that's exactly how I read it. I hope the S2 is a huge success and who knows, if it's so, some way down the line Leica may re enter the DSLR market, but R users who must shoot digital will have probably moved on by then so it will be an even harder market for them to penetrate. R glass looks lovely with a Canon body though.

 

Yes, I'm buying lots of lovely R glass for my Canon Bodies.