stunsworth Posted June 25, 2009 Share #21 Posted June 25, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Please can you articulate specifically what it is that I have not discovered with film that I should learn and enjoy during the next few years while it remains available (inclusive of processing) Since we don't know what it is you've not discovered I rather doubt that James can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here Kodachrome, Ilford, Agfa: Leica & the Future?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted June 25, 2009 Share #22 Posted June 25, 2009 What did you make photographs with before you shot with digital cameras, Frank? Good point Andy! Frank, you posted this in another thread....... 06.06.2009, 12:06 #1 (permalink) frankowen@wanadoo.fr Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 24.06.2008 Location: Grasse France Posts: 154 Flash Classical Units on the M8 I have just upgraded my analogue M4,5,6 and 12 Leica lenses plus Visoflex etc by adding the digital M8 back.....its wonderful. I should have done it sooner! So you should already know the answers to your questions shouldn't you? I must say I'm surprised you haven't taken any photos of your yachting trips with the new camera........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #23 Posted June 25, 2009 All getting a bit Rumsfeld... Known knowns, known unknowns... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #24 Posted June 25, 2009 Good point Andy! Frank, you posted this in another thread....... I have just upgraded my analogue M4,5,6 and 12 Leica lenses plus Visoflex etc by adding the digital M8 back.....its wonderful. I should have done it sooner! In that case, he knows what he's missing, and it makes me wonder why he has asked the question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 25, 2009 Share #25 Posted June 25, 2009 Maybe the death of Kodachrome has more to with competition against other films than competition with digital. I remember having conversations 15-20 years ago about the future of Kodachrome... and back then... people were convinced that the popularity of Fuji transparency films was more threatening to Kodachrome than the inevitable digital camera revolution. Kodachrome represented a specific era in film's history...but Kodachrome cannot lay claim to representing the entire film era. Kodachrome is simply being replaced by other films that are considered by the current generation to be better representations of the present film era. The future of film vs digital? Film is going to remain popular with a small, highly devoted and sophisticated audience. Expert film handling, processing, printing....might become something akin to occult hidden knowledge....but will still be around Film ain't going nowhere LOL. Mainstream acceptance doesn't usually result in demand for high quality, IN general, most products actually become better if they are designed to cater to a highly specialized niche audience as opposed to a clumsy illiterate mainstream audience. Film quality should only improve now that it's shaken off the burden of pleasing common housewives. Film processing? That might have a lot to do with politics....as some people have pointed out there are environmental concerns....and the current business climate is not friendly to small business people. Small entrepreneurs carry the greatest hope of fulfilling the need for film processing in smaller towns . It's possible that there could be lots of room for small processing enterprises to be started in tiny shops (and maybe residential homes) to support film communities outside of major metropolitan areas....but this could only happen if governments are forced to take a smaller role in regulation of business and the economy. Overall, I'm very optimistic...I think that within a decade we might just see a new golden age for film. Who knows? Time will tell... I think the above represents a very insightful analysis and I share as maybe you can imagine your thoughts. In the HiFi world we saw LP Vinyl giving way to Digital CD's and all of us liked the telecommand ease of use that CD gives, plus the absence of "snap crackle and pop" due to LP dirt. Equipment for playing LP's plummeted in value, and LP sales dropped through the floor. Today many people (like me!) have gone for hugely expensive analogue turntables and companies like SME have seen massive sales growth..The fact is that my ears still hear in analogue not digital!! Going forward I ask will film see a resurgence as you suggest and the end result is that we see a focus for film on high quality....great! I also see on this thread that there are real benefits of film and it is wrong to suggest that noise and high ISO values result in the same pictorial result. Can anyone show some photos that show what in real terms we are really discussing here as I have seen great photos made with both film and M8 digital ........Just perfect in focus shots, detail of kids hair is awe inspiring, colour rendering superb, detail of kids dress with rough cloth shows the detail etc etc..........So I ask what is it exactly that differentiates film from digital? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2009 Share #26 Posted June 25, 2009 If this degenerates into a "film is better than digital" or "digital is better than film" argument, this thread will be closed. Frank You have the equipment. You've been taking photos for years, by the looks of it. You can see for yourself the differences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 25, 2009 Share #27 Posted June 25, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Good point Andy! Frank, you posted this in another thread....... 06.06.2009, 12:06 #1 (permalink) frankowen@wanadoo.fr Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 24.06.2008 Location: Grasse France Posts: 154 Flash Classical Units on the M8 I have just upgraded my analogue M4,5,6 and 12 Leica lenses plus Visoflex etc by adding the digital M8 back.....its wonderful. I should have done it sooner! So you should already know the answers to your questions shouldn't you? I must say I'm surprised you haven't taken any photos of your yachting trips with the new camera........ Actually my view is that at ASA 25 to 160 I can take superb photos of a kid or landscape on a sunny day and I think it is difficult to see ANY nuance between film or digital M8. I would wish to be more precise on this: > Film needs to be properly processed with respect to colour balance and some white balance check needs to be considered during shooting. Exposure should be done on different films with +/- 0.5 fstops and then processed to align the processing with the film stock if you want to be really spot on accurate as I understand it. > Digital M8 needs proper white balance I guess and exposure needs to be considered also....then Photoshop will address any colour imbalance for the complete photo shoot provided light conditions remain constant. OK if we agree with the above where is the advantage of film ....I ask again for photos to prove the point using film that digital cannot manage! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted June 26, 2009 Share #28 Posted June 26, 2009 OK if we agree with the above where is the advantage of film ....I ask again for photos to prove the point using film that digital cannot manage! But I don't agree with it because I almost never bracket, with the occasional exception of certain night scenes. One advantage of film is that hard drive crashes or corrupted files have no effect on my slides and negatives. Another is that I get perfect Kodachrome slides straight from the camera. No elaborate manipulations in PS. Other than that, I shoot film for numerous reasons of personal preference, and these trump any rational arguments about which medium is "better" or more or less "advantageous." If you want photos to prove why my choices work for me, they're a click away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted June 26, 2009 Share #29 Posted June 26, 2009 OK if we agree with the above where is the advantage of film ....I ask again for photos to prove the point using film that digital cannot manage! Seems to me that an unasked question is "What is the objective?" Mine is a print on the wall. And mainly, B&W. So far, I have not seen anything I like better than a beautiful, skillfully made print on silver/gelatin paper. And this cannot be "proven" here, using a computer system and our various personal assertions - mine included. I don't give a damn about film - except that it does what I want better than anything else I have seen so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted June 26, 2009 Share #30 Posted June 26, 2009 Lars, Do you shoot film at all or have you converted fully do digital? What exactly can you do with your M8 that you 'couldn't' do with MF? Some photographers are still using wet plates, I went to an exhibition recently where the photographer makes his own wet plates and uses a 100 yr old camera - the images were fantastic BTW. Do digicams come supplied with a pair of blinkers and ear plugs? I do own a M4-P. Lovely camera, but film is a PITA, and when my freezer is empty, it's the end. What I can do with my M8 that I can't do with 35mm film, or (by definition) with MF: Make full use of the capacity of Leica lenses. I get resolution I can't get with any 35mm film for general photography. I get the definition I could only have with 6x9cm roll film behind first class optics. Wet plates are beside the point, because the user coated them himself immediately before use. He needed only some basic chemicals like gun cotton (!), ether, silver nitrate, developer and hypo. The film user is part of an industrial chain. When that chain is broken, he is helpless. That chain has now broken for Kodachrome. The old man who came out of the darkroom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_peter_m Posted June 26, 2009 Share #31 Posted June 26, 2009 3 If I use my M8 I cut the price of film to zero, and do not have a processing problem and . I see the results immediately . If I play with the ISO setting I get to choose the grainy effect (some call it noise) so apart from the thrill of developing Black & White why bother with film I ask myself. Yet clearly I am missing something as so many people on this Forum are fanatical about film. Film >>>>>> Paint with light Digital >>>>>> Paint by Numbers Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 26, 2009 Share #32 Posted June 26, 2009 What I can do with my M8 that I can't do with 35mm film, or (by definition) with MF: Make full use of the capacity of Leica lenses. Wet plates are beside the point, because the user coated them himself immediately before use. Lars, your M8 with its crop factor is not making full use of the capacity of your Leica lenses, you need 35mm 'FF' for that Wet plates beside the point? Sorry but you mentioned them in the first place as defunct (So film will go the way of the wet plate negative) fact is some photographers still use them! And wet plates are always coated by the photographer before use. I've also another photographer producing daguerreotypes, and other 'defunct' photographic processes. Film has got a long way to go yet, I doubt that it will ever cease to exist. OK we have lost Kodachrome, but I'm as guilty as anyone for not having used it at all in recent years - I've been using other types of film instead. Anyway we should be arguing with Frank here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 26, 2009 Share #33 Posted June 26, 2009 Actually my view is that at ASA 25 to 160 I can take superb photos of a kid or landscape on a sunny day and I think it is difficult to see ANY nuance between film or digital M8. I would wish to be more precise on this:> Film needs to be properly processed with respect to colour balance and some white balance check needs to be considered during shooting. Exposure should be done on different films with +/- 0.5 fstops and then processed to align the processing with the film stock if you want to be really spot on accurate as I understand it. > Digital M8 needs proper white balance I guess and exposure needs to be considered also....then Photoshop will address any colour imbalance for the complete photo shoot provided light conditions remain constant. OK if we agree with the above where is the advantage of film ....I ask again for photos to prove the point using film that digital cannot manage! No, don't agree. Don't even understand what you're saying. Post a photo of your yacht taken with film and digital then we can critique for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 26, 2009 Share #34 Posted June 26, 2009 No, don't agree. Don't even understand what you're saying. Post a photo of your yacht taken with film and digital then we can critique for you. Please advise how I add photo attachments from a file on my HDD to a posting......I have tried and failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_peter_m Posted June 26, 2009 Share #35 Posted June 26, 2009 Comparing some crummy web JPG's won't do it you got to compare prints and decide what you like best Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 26, 2009 Share #36 Posted June 26, 2009 Please advise how I add photo attachments from a file on my HDD to a posting......I have tried and failed. You're not very good at doing anything for yourself are you Frank. See this thread... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachments Maximum side dimension is 960 pixels, maximum file size is 240k. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 26, 2009 Share #37 Posted June 26, 2009 Please advise how I add photo attachments from a file on my HDD to a posting......I have tried and failed. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/2341-posting-multiple-images-threads.html This may also be useful - ignore the bit about the video (I will get round to redoing that shortly...) http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/about-leica-forum/62914-video-available-show-resizing-photos-display.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 26, 2009 Share #38 Posted June 26, 2009 . This is another "the sky is falling" threads. But the sky *IS* falling.... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/88984-kodachrome-ilford-agfa-leica-the-future/?do=findComment&comment=944853'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 26, 2009 Share #39 Posted June 26, 2009 I am wondering whether Frank actually leaves his front door very often, or maybe even lives in a cave I found an image of Frank sitting on his doorstep. His home is in the woods near Nordseter. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/88984-kodachrome-ilford-agfa-leica-the-future/?do=findComment&comment=944940'>More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 26, 2009 Share #40 Posted June 26, 2009 Good point Andy! Frank, you posted this in another thread....... 06.06.2009, 12:06 #1 (permalink) frankowen@wanadoo.fr Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 24.06.2008 Location: Grasse France Posts: 154 Flash Classical Units on the M8 I have just upgraded my analogue M4,5,6 and 12 Leica lenses plus Visoflex etc by adding the digital M8 back.....its wonderful. I should have done it sooner! So you should already know the answers to your questions shouldn't you? I must say I'm surprised you haven't taken any photos of your yachting trips with the new camera........ My point about the M8 mentioned above was that I get at least the following advanatges: 1 Photos are immediately available to view......In my case it helps me to know i have not set the exposure correctly or that the focus is not good etc. 2 The picture quality is excellent and I am reading here that the definition is better with M8 than film as the pixel size is smaller 3 It is cheap to shoot photos as at 500+ shots per 4Gig and then press delete (after saving the few one likes) it is basically gratis. 4 In my case it allowed me to use my lens collection etc so that is why I was happy to have bought the M8.. Now I read over the last weeks that other would never go digital or at least until FF is available. They are staying in the realms of M4,M5, M6 that I also have ...I do not have M7 or "R" kit Initially I saw this as something to do with people wanting to use 21mm lenses at 21mm and not at 28mm....well that argument is very focussed on just one lens in the range! I have been loooking for other benefits that I maybe am missing with film and given the strong views they must be significant. Here in this thread I read it is only possible to judge after a proper print is made yet actually the definition and colour range is superior with transparencies than print so why use print as the defining element, unless this is the final client driven output. Personally I like most people use a PC monitor or a DLP projector these days, but I also do have a pradovit and certainly 35mm transparencies are excellent. So I still do not understand why film given the M8 and Andy if this is going to revert into a useless debate with polarised views cut this thread off. I do feel that it is a harmless question from someone who wants to know should I bother to get my M4, M5 M6 serviced or put them in a glass case for nostalgic reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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