stevelap Posted June 18, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've been mulling over the significance of the end of the R line (and it is significant: No further traditional, 35mm Leica film or digital SLR body, period) and wondering what lies ahead. It seems obvious now that the S2 replaces the R in the model line-up as Leica's high-end DSLR offering, albeit in a different area of the market and at a significantly higher price point. It also seems clear that an M9 will appear eventually (was there ever really any doubt about the M line continuing). What though of the 'future R solution'? Reports from the Hessenpark Meet speak of a future model being FF with EVF and, we're assuming, developed in association with a partner (for the moment I'm assuming that it will be a Digilux model and that the partner will be Panasonic, but it could be something entirely different of course). Now this development might have been forced upon Leica by cold economic reality, but might it also present them with an opportunity to take a bold leap of faith into the future? Although I'm not an R owner I do have fond memories of using a loaned R9 plus a couple of lenses, so much so that I oh so nearly bought it with only the need to go digital and the cost of the DMR putting me off (I often find myself regretting that decision). As a non-owner then, I can sit back and watch from the sidelines with only the price of entry to the S system of concern in the short term, and the wait for the 'R solution' in the longer term should the S2 prove beyond me or unsuitable. But what of the loyal R owner who's been waiting oh so patiently for so long, how do you really feel about all of this this? Are you angry and frustrated or just resigned to a fait accompli? Will you stick with film? Will you stick with Leica for your non-M digital system and give the 'R solution' and new technology a chance, or is the thought of another long wait for an unknown product just too much? Finally, if you jump ship, will you hold onto your R lenses for use with a different body or switch systems entirely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 18, 2009 Posted June 18, 2009 Hi stevelap, Take a look here Death of the R - How do you really feel?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 18, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 18, 2009 No - I will stick with the DMR and the M system for as long as it takes, and should I get too frustrated I'll convert my R lenses to Nikon. For the time being the DMR produces all I need - and a lot more. Even size and weight don't bother me. Compared to the lenses I use any reduction in the department would be relatively unimportant. I was interested in the R10 - but I would have hung onto the DMR as a backup anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted June 18, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 18, 2009 I wasn't in for an R10 anyway, digital photography simply isn't my piece of cake. So while I am a bit disappointed, Leica's decision has no immediate effect on me. I'll just keep on using (and enjoying) my R9 and its truly outstanding lenses for the foreseeable future. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted June 18, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 18, 2009 I hope my DMR will last for quite a few years though I am not sure about it. If the R9 fails before I hope I will be able to find used R9s at a decent price. Once it is all over I hope that it will be possible to use my (zoom) lenses on a Nikon which I prefer over the Canon. It is a bit disappointing though for I only a few years ago invested in the R system because of its ease of use. On the other hand the DMR has its limitations as I recently found out: Shooting at a (pretty dark) theatre rehearsal with DMR and 4/80-200 at ISO 400, the other guy with a D3x and 2.8/70-200. No enlargement necessary to see that sharpness is from different worlds. So I guess I better stick to nature photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 18, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 18, 2009 Actually I'm quite excited about the concept that seems to be taking form. I see many advantages in a EVIL high-quality camera for nature photography. For one thing the low-light capability of an EVF (yes-yes I know, not the strong point yet - but I'm convinced it will be) will be very useful and the presumed quietness of such a camera too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 18, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 18, 2009 {Snipped}On the other hand the DMR has its limitations as I recently found out: Shooting at a (pretty dark) theatre rehearsal with DMR and 4/80-200 at ISO 400, the other guy with a D3x and 2.8/70-200. No enlargement necessary to see that sharpness is from different worlds. So I guess I better stick to nature photography Are you talking about the resolution difference? The DMR is much sharper than my D3... and it has significantly fewer pixels. But in terms of resolving power a D3x has more than twice the pixels, and they're good quality pixels too. So I would expect more detail. Your R lens should walk all over the Nikon, though; the 70-200 2.8 Nikkor is not exactly one of their best. But the question is would you use the extra pixels in a print or crop? ********************************************************************* Anyway, I'm disappointed to the point of being, for the first time in a long time, angry at Leica. It's no secret that the M is the favoured baby at Leica, but I actually prefer many of the R lenses. When my DMR gives out, I can shoot film with the R9. But honestly, I don't see myself doing that much. And I've done the adapter thing on R lenses and it's a lot of work. Yes, I've gotten wonderful, wonderful shots with a 1ds2 and a 5d. But neither of them give me the look of the of the DMR. And the adapters are always suspect for focus in truth. I also don't want an EVF / Panaleica 4/3 thing to bolt my R glass onto--at least, not with any technology I've seen yet, and the crop factor (double the focal length!) is a joke. So my only option is to have my R lenses remounted for Nikon, and hope lenses like the superb R19 can be remounted without shaving mirrors or any of that nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted June 18, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) In practical terms I'm content to continue to use film for the moment. But I'm irritated by the hinting and teasing over the last two or three years, that has unltimately led to nothing. Once or twice I've been on the point of buying a second-hand DMR, but finally decided against it based on indications that a post-DMR digital R was on the way. There is no date for the new "adequate digital solution". There is no indication of whether it will be full 35mm frame. There is no indication as to wheher it will be simply an adapter on someone else's camera requiring stop-down metering, or wether it will be a more customised variant which will talk to ROM chips. The least Leica can do is to tell us in more detail what they have in mind, and to be more categorical in their assurances that the product will actually materialise. It might be said that S.D. has given assurances that a future digital R solution is indeed on the way, but they've said that since before the S2. For the moment, I'll believe it when I see it. I feel that I, as an R user, have kept faith with Leica. For the moment, I do not feel that the converse is true. Sorry, but there we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 18, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 18, 2009 Leica's solution will 100% certain not be 4/3rds, but full-format. Those two things were stated with full conviction. And it would be a non-mirror camera. That was also 100%. The EVIL solution was not in the public presentation, but was discussed in private conversation. For an EVF stop-down metering is basically irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 18, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 18, 2009 Actually I'm quite excited about the concept that seems to be taking form. I see many advantages in a EVIL high-quality camera for nature photography. For one thing the low-light capability of an EVF (yes-yes I know, not the strong point yet - but I'm convinced it will be) will be very useful and the presumed quietness of such a camera too. Nature photography, studio photography (with waist level EVF), video/cinema... The possibilities are many... Different types of products can be developed around the same system... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted June 18, 2009 I don't really want to drag the discussion off to talking about other camera specifics as such, although brand/model choice is certainly a factor. As for the 'future R solution', the Digilux and Panasonic thing is just my working hypothesis for the time being. Even so, one of the reports from Hessenpark was along the lines of 'no Leica interest in 4/3rds or M4/3rds bodies' or something like that, and FF was mentioned too, so perhaps that's one less thing to be concerned about. Given recent events though, it's probably prudent to agree with John's "I'll believe it when I see it" statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 18, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 18, 2009 I don't really want to drag the discussion off to talking about other camera specifics as such, although brand/model choice is certainly a factor. As for the 'future R solution', the Digilux and Panasonic thing is just my working hypothesis for the time being. Even so, one of the reports from Hessenpark was along the lines of 'no Leica interest in 4/3rds or M4/3rds bodies' or something like that, and FF was mentioned too, so perhaps that's one less thing to be concerned about. Given recent events though, it's probably prudent to agree with John's "I'll believe it when I see it" statement. It was quite clear in the Hessenpark. 4/3rds is out. Full format is in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 18, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 18, 2009 Firstly I don't plan on selling my R3 and Leica R lenses - I wouldn't get very much for them (compared to their true worth photographically speaking) and they continue to serve me very well. An R10 system, if there had have been one would probably have been out of my price range in any case, but nice to consider as a s/h purchase down the line (that said, maybe if the camera came along I'd be prepared to sell off my other gear to finance it) but I'm still mostly shooting film out of preference. I need to use digital now and then and I've traded up from my digicam to a Canon body (thanks again for the software Steve!) which I can use my R lenses with. It's early days but if it goes well I can imagine buying a better Canon body later on and I intend to add one or two Canon AF lenses to the mix. I'm also very interested to see what the 'solution' that Leica have spoken about looks like. It's a shame that Leica couldn't continue to make the R9 and DMR in the meantime, OK if it wasn't commercially viable (sensor supply apart) then we have to accept that, but it was an amazing and unique product. My investment in the R system is small compared to many others, I think if I had to have a DSLR system then I would probably sell up and move to Canon (and keep a couple of favorite R lenses) or Nikon. Going forward who knows. The 'R solution' is interesting and sounds like it won't be made by Leica as such. Longer term, if they are to produce a new system to sit in between the M and S2 ranges, I'd rather they take this opportunity to break from the past and innovate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted June 18, 2009 Share #13 Posted June 18, 2009 Leica's solution will 100% certain not be 4/3rds, but full-format. Those two things were stated with full conviction. And it would be a non-mirror camera. That was also 100%. The EVIL solution was not in the public presentation, but was discussed in private conversation. For an EVF stop-down metering is basically irrelevant. Jaap That's fine. All we need is a release date then. Either they have someone else's camera or camera family firmly in mind, or they don't. If they do, an indicated release date should not be too hard. Till then, in the light of previous experience, I still regard it as vapourware, and I'll believe it when I see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 18, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 18, 2009 I agree, John. I'm not too concerned as long as the DMR delivers more than I can deliver - and that is quite a bit into the future. The only concern I have is the less-than-perfect reliability of the system in the tropics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted June 18, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 18, 2009 Another interesting possibility exists to replace R and that is going M. It gives you all the Leica quality glass you can buy, except for long tele which you will have to get dig out the DRM, Canon, Nikon or other camera. But M is not that bad, actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted June 18, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 18, 2009 One being mad at Leica. Year, I've tried that too. For delaying repairs, for being slow, for speaking German, for launching rumors, for presenting faulty products,etc. But when I work with the gear I have and view the results, I love them again. And it makes me understand the envy from other photographers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christoph Posted June 18, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 18, 2009 Death of the R or scam? Überragendes Leica Apo-Telyt-R 280 F4,0 neuwertig o.Rom bei eBay.de: (endet 25.06.09 12:06:33 MESZ) Regards Christoph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 18, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2009 Thorsten, I completely understand and agree with you. But they do owe us R users something more than a vague assurance from the man who loves M first and foremost. An EVF solution. Sigh. I'd like to know who's making the sensor and image processor. I guess we'll have to see what it's really like, but I don't care about studio and landscape use. I want to use my R19, 35s and 50 as event lenses. Even the longer lenses I use for events. So tweaking with whatever the EVF will give me in extremely low or extremely bright light is annoying. I'm prepared to be convinced, however... More and more I'd like to see what the 50 Lux or 100 APO looks like on a D3x... Let's see... a d3x plus the $150 (Canadian) conversion per lens... plus surgery to the R19 = yikes. The sad thing is all that cost--including the D3x--is still probably less than the R10 was gonna be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4X5B&W Posted June 18, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 18, 2009 Very, very disappointing, I wouldn't mind it so much if Leica had never said anything about a R DSLR........but they did, many times over the last 3 years. Then to sell off all R stock-on-hand through a company on Ebay. And now this announcement.......WOW I love my M8 (and my M6), and have really enjoyed my R6 and R series lenses, but to have no digital future for that superb glass is truly upsetting. I am now firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp, I'm not the slightest bit interested in thinking about a R DSLR solution, until I see a production unit in my hands. I believe that Leica owes it to R owners to come through with a way forward, for what is probably the best SLR lenses ever designed........what a way to treat loyal customers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 18, 2009 Share #20 Posted June 18, 2009 ...Are you angry and frustrated or just resigned to a fait accompli? Will you stick with film? Will you stick with Leica for your non-M digital system...? Finally, if you jump ship, will you hold onto your R lenses for use with a different body or switch systems entirely? - Resigned to a fait accompli. - Film is over for me. - No non-M Leicas any more. EVF is a no no. - Will keep my R lenses for my 5D and complement them by a couple of Zeiss lenses for full aperture metering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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