M6TTL vs MP3

[harleyboy]

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Hi,

 

I am brand new to the Leica world. I have been shooting with a 6X6 blad and want something more compact for the street. I am trying to determine the best option for my needs. Here are my questions that I hope some of you experts can help me with:

 

1) What is the major difference between and MP3 and M6TTL from a feature perspective?

2) The MP3 LHSA has this leicavit which I am assuming is a rapid winder thingy? Is that feature useful on a leica?

3) The MP has TTL the same as M6TTL so I am assuming that the M6 just has TTL for flash as well? Does that mean that the MP does not allow for TTL with a flash?

4) If I buy a used M6 how important is it to buy a matching lens that comes with the body? Does that really matter much?

5) Is there "really" any collector value to one of these Leica's like the LHSA models. What am I paying a premium for? Extra engraving, cooler colours etc? I wonder if these cameras are really all the same with different esthetics and creative marketing campaigns to capture the emotional buyer? Is this true or am I missing something?

 

Thanks for the help

 

Mark

[Lucklik]

Hi,

 

1) What is the major difference between and MP3 and M6TTL from a feature perspective?

The M6TTL has trough the lens flash metering

2) The MP3 LHSA has this leicavit which I am assuming is a rapid winder thingy? Is that feature useful on a leica?

I haven't used a Leicavit, but I use the Leica motor on my M6TTL and M7 and I find it usefull in reportage

3) The MP has TTL the same as M6TTL so I am assuming that the M6 just has TTL for flash as well? Does that mean that the MP does not allow for TTL with a flash?

Correct

4) If I buy a used M6 how important is it to buy a matching lens that comes with the body? Does that really matter much?

That is your own choice. However the black chrome lenses weight less then the 'silver' chrome lenses. But all M lenses can be used on all M6, MP or M7 bodies.

5) Is there "really" any collector value to one of these Leica's like the LHSA models. What am I paying a premium for? Extra engraving, cooler colours etc? I wonder if these cameras are really all the same with different esthetics and creative marketing campaigns to capture the emotional buyer? Is this true or am I missing something?

I use my M's for taking pictures and I don't care about the collectors value.

All MP's are the same, 100% mechanical except the exposure meter, but the viewfinder is a little better then the M6TTL. And the exposure dial is a little smaller and turns in a differnt directaion than MP or M7

All M7's are the same, and have a electronic driven shutter and electronic exposure meter, TTL flash metering. The viewfinder is the same as the MP and a little better then the M6TTL

All M6TTL are the same, 100% mechanical except exposure metering.

rgs

Luc

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[wizard]

One more - and probably important - difference between the MP3 LHSA and M6, M6TTL, M7 and MP is that the MP3 only features brightlines for 35, 50 and 90mm lenses while the other models have finders showing brightlines for 28, 35, 50, 75, 90 and 135mm lenses (that is true for the most common 0.72 viewfinder magnification variety of the Leica M camera. Models with 0.58 viewfinder magnification lack the 135 brightline, models with 0.85 viewfinder magnification lack the 28 brightline).

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[richam]

A couple of other observations. The MP has the original knurled post rewind knob and one piece metal advance lever that are very rugged. The M6TTL has the canted knob with small flip out lever rewind and the 2 piece plastic tipped advance lever that are easier to use, but not as rugged. Note that some ala carte MPs may have a different setup.

 

The LHSA MP-3 is supposed to be a re-creation of the original MP of 1957, and as such has the M2 style film counter and 35, 50, and 90 framelines (instead of 28, 35, 50, 75, 90 and 135mm on the MP). The LHSA MP3 also has slightly different "dog-ear" type strap lugs as found on the original 1957 model. Only 1000 are or have been built, so it's really a collector's item. More info:

 

http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

[earleygallery]

2) The MP3 LHSA has this leicavit which I am assuming is a rapid winder thingy? Is that feature useful on a leica?

 

Try one out in a store - you can buy it for the other models (or a motor). Depends on what you'll be shooting.

 

4) If I buy a used M6 how important is it to buy a matching lens that comes with the body? Does that really matter much?

 

No M's come with 'matching' lenses, apart from special editions ie the Titanium model with Titanium lens.

 

5) Is there "really" any collector value to one of these Leica's like the LHSA models. What am I paying a premium for? Extra engraving, cooler colours etc?

 

Collector editions are just that IMO, premium priced rartities, which may prove to be good investments over a period of years if you are prepared to keep them, unused, in their boxes. Leica collectors want mint/boxed as a rule. If you're buying a camera to use then you really don't want to spend your money one of them.

[ddp]

The MP3 can be bought independently - if you are looking at one with the Leicavidt, I believe that also includes the 50 1.4 Asph as part of the LHSA kit.

 

If you were to spec out a chrome MP in the Ala Carte program with similar engraving, body covering & framelines - it would come out to approx. $3940 USD. The MP3 is $4295 I think. I personally like the old school look of the MP3, and if were to buy new - I would certainly consider it despite collectability status.

[harleyboy]

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thanks so much for all the replies...you are guys are wealth of information for a new Leica wanna be.

 

I do have someone offering to sell me their brand new MP3 LHSA for $5900 USD. It is the complete kit with 50mm lens/hood, leicavit, boxes, warranty etc. I think the camera looks great but I am questioning the "value" of what I am getting over a mint M6TTL. I just don't know enough about these cameras to really feel confident in the decision.

 

Also, I don't like the fact that the MP3 LHSA kits comes with the 50mm lens. I would rather the 35mm lens. So maybe the a la carte is the way to go if I was to choose to buy new.

[abrewer]

Welcome to the Forum, Mark!

 

That LHSA MP3 Kit retails for about eight grand, plus the 50ASPH that comes with it is arguably the best lens Leica makes and retails by itself for $2800. Add in the Leicavit and that's another $800 if I recall....not a bad deal if you have that much money to put into a camera.

 

Just so you know Leica has a promotion going through the end of the year that kicks back $500 credit on other products to you if you buy a new film Leica (including a la carte) from your dealer.

 

So, if you could buy a new black paint MP (standard edition) for 3K, you'd have $500 toward a 35 'Cron ASPH to boot.

 

(Attachment)

 

Thanks.

 

Allan

leicaGiftCertificate.pdf

[karmadragon]

Hi, I mention 1 more different thing between MP3( or MP) and M6 TTL. The missing of a hood( in between the light ray inner the rangefinder will make the yellow image lost or lower contrast when some strong light source point to the camera) since M6 was introduced, and Leica added it in the MP and M7( when MP come).

 

Enjoy

 

Morgan

[mwilliamsphotography]

Arguably, the Leica M3 was the most beautiful Leica ever designed. The MP3 is the closest thing to it, but has TTL metering which the M3 does not.

 

The M6TTL is a slightly taller camera (to accommodate the TTL flash works). Some think it threw off the aesthetics just enough ... I'm one who subscribes to that.

 

But it has nothing to do with any functionality.

 

TTL flash control is a good thing IF you use flash and filters. Otherwise a M6 Classic, MP or MP3 do just fine using an Auto Eye type flash ... for as much as a Leicas M gets used with a flash.

 

The MP3 has bright lines for 35mm, 50mm and 90mm. It's like this to keep the viewfinder uncluttered. If you do not wear glasses when shooting, the outter edge of the viewfinder works quite well for a 28mm. I use a chrome Zeiss 28/2.8 which costs less than Leica version. It also has a retro look to it that looks good on my MP3.

 

Either way, you can't miss with a Leica M ... unless that type of shooting just isn't your cup of tea.

[thomasw_]

Arguably, the Leica M3 was the most beautiful Leica ever designed. The MP3 is the closest thing to it, but has TTL metering which the M3 does not.

 

Mark: Did you not claim the Leica iiif to be the most beautiful somewhere else....or am I remembering someone else? good cheer, thomas w.

[batmobile]

Harleyboy,

 

Please buy a MP3 LHSA and use it hard. If you work out the value of the package you are being offered for $5900 it is cheaper than a regular MP, assuming genuine USA stock:

 

Mp-$3500

50 Summilux - $2500+

Leciavit - $1000

Total-7K

 

The MP3 is a beauty but as a kit at that price assuming in great condition it a fair price too. You will have something unique, not because it is one of a thousand (or 500 in each finish) but because very few of them will ever be used (a crime).

 

In contrast to becoming part of the waffly pseudo collectors gang, you will still have had bought a good value package and by using the darned thing and accepting the loss in value (It will still be worth more than a regular MP dont forget, used or not) you will be sticking two fingers up at those who keep them in cabinets!

 

I would love to own a black MP3 and to use it for what it was made for - an image making tool!

 

what colour is the one you can get?

 

Rgds,

 

Tom

[harleyboy]

Tom,

 

Thanks for the note. Don't worry...I am a photographer first. I intend on using it constantly. It is nice to know if the camera has some value but in the end I will probably never sell it unless I am homeless on the street. However, I guess I could get some good street shots if I was homeless with a Leica.

 

The MP3 I can get is silver.

 

I here you on the MP a la carte vs the MP3 kit.

 

The major decision that I have to make now is M6TTL + lens(used) or go full bore for the MP3 LHSA. I don't know if I need that Leicavit but it seems like a great thing and given I am going to "use it" do I really need to buy brand new.

 

Everyone's input is really helpful. So thanks

 

Mark

[mwilliamsphotography]

What is ironic Mark, is that when you asked this question I attempted to shoot a studio shot of my MP3 and M7 to show the difference. I used my brand new Leica M8 to do it and in the process confirmed a major problem with how the M8 camera renders different blacks ... thus causing a raging controversy on the digital forum.

 

Get the MP3 Kit. The whole matched kit is even rarer ... making it even more titalating to use. I love mine. The heft of it. The look of it. But I use it a lot.

 

Here's the photo I was talking about, except I had to do it with a Leica R9/DMR to get the blacks right.

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[ddp]

The Leicavit is awesome if you're a left eye shooter. Takes a little getting used, but it really is great at times.

 

The M8 test images of the MP3 & M7 are truly dangerous. The MP3 is a gorgeous camera...one that I am plotting on acquiring....and to use.

[batmobile]

Theres no doubt about it tho a used M6TTL is so much cheaper (say $1500) that you would have $4400 to put into lenses. That would almost get you several new Leica lenses (75 Cron and 35 cron) or:

 

$900 - 25 Biogon or 28 at $800

$800 - 35 ZM planar

$600 - 50 ZM Planar

$1000 - 90 Elmarit-M (used)

Luigi Case

Change (or drop one of the above lenses and get a second TTL body)

 

Funnily enough the above is what I have (28 Biogon) (With an MP).

 

That said if you can aford it and tend to use few lenses, why not go for the MP3; it'll retain lots of the value.

 

I would not go for an a la Carte. Youd be buying new and lose lots if you had to resell. MP3 at $5900 complete in box or used gear. You could also consider a 'used as new (read grey import) MP.

[batmobile]

Do the MP3 sets have matching serial numbers on the lens, body and leicavit?

[karmadragon]

compare the old leicavit for the old MP and MP2( the price more than the New MP3 set if in like new condition and no parts can repair, Reason? very rare and very useful- follow the object w/o moving the viewfinder axis when point to the shooting object at 3flims/sec w/o battery), the new leicavit is very cheap indeed althought at lower speed( about 2film/sec-because the old MP & MP2 gears are steel instead of brass)

 

Enjoy! MP3 is very nice!

 

Morgan