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jaapv

Am I really THAT prejudiced?

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On Guy's forum, GetDPI, there are two comparable threads, one filled with hundreds of Nikon images:

Fun Pictures with Nikon - The GetDPI Workshop Forums

 

And one with a comparable number of M8 images:

More and more fun with M8 images - The GetDPI Workshop Forums

 

 

I went into the Nikon thread because I am quite convinced of the quality of Nikon cameras and lenses, in fact if I were not a Leica fan I would be using Nikon. But the vast majority of shots in the Leica thread had more presence, tonality, punch, etc than the shots in the Nikon thread to my eye, although the photographers were just as good...

Is it me? Is it Leica? Am I sane or just blinded by a red dot?

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Guest stnami

Just another boring my camera is better than yours thread, just camouflaged with a weak comparative peak at some forum images................... I really don't know why you bothered your mind has been made up ages ago. Or are you just after a feel good pat on the back, which I am sure you will get from a Leica site, then you can sleep easy in a smug smug bed

 

Love the attempt of giving the post some so called sense of fairness.. sad stuff

in fact if I were not a Leica fan I would be using Nikon
Edited by stnami

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Just lenses IMHO. Nikon pics are better with Zeiss lenses, as well as Canon's with Zeiss or Leica glass.

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Just another boring my camera is better than yours thread, just camouflaged with a weak comparative peak at some forum images................... I really don't know why you bothered your mind has been made up ages ago. Or are you just after a feel good pat on the back, which I am sure you will get from a Leica site, then you can sleep easy in a smug smug bed

 

I know it is hard for you to look at other people's images...But I take your answer as a yes.

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I guess the only way to answer your question directly is for you to do a blind test, with images from Leica, Nikon and possibly other cameras and glass, and see if you can determine which is which.

 

Frankly, if you gave me this test using the images you posted...and only being able to see them online...I couldn't figure it out. I like some in each thread, and others not so much. But, the images aren't the same, so who knows why I react the way I do?

 

I say this as someone who has used Leica Ms on film for about 20 years, using my own darkroom to process and print. But, before I moved to Leica, I also used Nikon and Canon. Some images I shot with the latter two are still my favorites, but who knows if it's the image quality that moves me, or the experience and memory of taking the image in the first place, or something else? Cameras and lenses are only a tool. But, if you like what you use, and have a preference, then great. You have one less thing to worry about.

 

I collect photography books and vintage prints from a broad cross-section of photographers. The images are wonderful, but the mediums....prints and books...are vastly different. I can't compare them, but both move me. And, often I have no clue as to what equipment was used. Much of it was large format, using chemicals and techniques that the photographer had to invent.

 

This whole digital world is new to me. I'm just about to enter it using an 8.2...primarily because I loved working with my M 6's and M7's and good old Tri-Ex. Will I love the images, or the experience, as much? Will I be able to recreate the "look" I love, or maybe create a different but equally exciting look? Who knows? I'm just happy to learn some new things and create some images that excite me. And, I appreciate the feedback that I've gotten so far on this forum to help me make the leap.

 

I can't wait to buy my gear, learn how to use it (along with the computer hardware, software, printers, etc., which I don't know very well) and get beyond all the equipment decisions and mechanics so that I can enjoy just taking and looking at pics again.

 

Jeff

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Guest stnami

Jaap's new thread could read as follows.........

 

On a forum, there are two comparable threads, one filled with hundreds of images from mother-in-laws fathers' photo albums

 

And one with a comparable number of my M8 images:

 

I went into the mother-in-laws fathers' photo albums thread because I am quite convinced of the quality of the mother-in-laws fathers' photo albums, in fact if I were not a fan of myself I would be taking lessons from the mother-in-laws fathers . But the vast majority of shots on my thread had more presence, tonality, punch, etc than the shots in the mother-in-laws fathers' photo albums thread to my eye, although the photographers were just as good...

Is it me? Is it me? Am I just blinded by me?

............... then it will be canon's turn ( couldn't start with that one as it was too obvious ), followed by four thirds and even the defunct Konika Minoltas

 

I know it is hard for you to look at other people's images... Yap Jaap when did this simplistic assumption burst into your cranium?

Edited by stnami

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My M8 images? I posted far less than dozen in the beginning and two at the end. The other 860 are not mine. You're raving now....

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Guest stnami
My M8 images? I posted far less than dozen in the beginning and two at the end. The other 860 are not mine. You're raving now....
Read again, you sure crack me up in your self involvement................wake up this is earth calling jaap are you with us?

Edited by stnami

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Maybe I shouldn't disturb you two, but then you'll probably end up in the Octagon. Every Leica user is prejudiced. And rightfully so. The lenses are incredible and the M8 is good enough to show it. Every lens has a different look and quality. Now that being said, I wonder what the M lenses would look like with the D3x or 5dIIs sensor. I just looked at some slides and that answers the question why exactly we all love Leica so much.

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And what about the content? Two performances of the same piece of music by different orchestras might both be "correct," might both be "accurate," and might we not prefer one over another? A local musician I have photographed recently purchased, and started performing on, a 1950-something Selmer Paris Alto Sax. It sounds wonderful, and the performance of a given piece might be better, to my ears, but that doesn't mean that, on that evening, in that club, I am less moved by a wonderful solo he performed using a Yamaha instrument....

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Except for noting more telephoto shots on the Nikon thread and more B&W (slightly) on the Leica thread, I didn't really see a difference. And for me it mostly was a "blind" test for just that reason - unless I hunted around for the thread title, I had no idea which camera I was looking at most of the time.

 

But don't sweat that, jaapv - most of the time I can't see any advantage to ASPH lenses, either.

 

[o"]

 

(that's the "Leica" emoticon - I just invented it)

 

The single most interesting shot (IMHO) was taken with Leica - but with a Zeiss lens. Sculpture of head looming over the photographer in Philadelphia.

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But the vast majority of shots in the Leica thread had more presence, tonality, punch, etc than the shots in the Nikon thread to my eye, although the photographers were just as good...

 

Whatever.

 

I started looking at the two threads, but after the first couple of pages of each, I really couldn't find any point in making the comparison.

 

But if someone believes it is important...It is.

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Just another boring my camera is better than yours thread, just camouflaged with a weak comparative peak at some forum images................... I really don't know why you bothered your mind has been made up ages ago. Or are you just after a feel good pat on the back, which I am sure you will get from a Leica site, then you can sleep easy in a smug smug bed

 

Love the attempt of giving the post some so called sense of fairness.. sad stuff

 

I hope you wouldn't say this to a person face to face and if you wouldn't why would you say it here?

 

Whatever your views I would have hoped for a little more courtesy expressing them.

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I couldn't see any consistent difference in presence, punch or tonality (not at web resolution anyway). There are some very good photos in both threads.

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Probably the answer is yes, but there could be contributing factors...

 

* All the M8 images are being taken with Leica's flagship camera, with prime lenses, many of which would be best-in-class.

vs.

* A fair number of the Nikon images would be taken with lower specced Nikon cameras, using zoom lenses that are not anywhere near best-in-class.

 

Whether you could actually see the difference given the impact of post-processing and resizing for web etc... is debatable. Personally, I have the same attitude towards Hi-Fi, I sincerely doubt most people's capacity to tell the difference in the environments they actually use the equipment in. I believe they fool themselves in order satisfy a desire to have the 'best' - irrespective of the actual utility. That doesn't make such a choice invalid, as it clearly makes them happy - it just means that assertions of actual objective superiority should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Either way, the more interesting and useful debate should be whether the shots are boring crap or not, which is probably not correlated with camera choice

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Yes! But in the overall scheme of things it probably doesn't matter.

 

A photograph can be judged for its artistic or technical merit or both, nonetheless technical excellence of a camera or lens is rarely the reason for a great photograph. In the examples that you quote neither camera is responsible for the poor or mediocre aesthetic quality of the pictures posted. That rests squarely with the person behind the viewfinder.

 

In the UK there is a motoring enthusiast Jeremy Clarkson who coined the phrase "Petrol Head" to describe someone who is obsessed with cars. This forum, as many others is full of "Camera Heads".

 

Unfortunately for me, the almost obsessive discussions about one set of gear being better than another just makes for tedious reading.

 

Dubois

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...I wonder what the M lenses would look like with the D3x or 5dIIs sensor...

M lenses i don't know but R ones give very nice results on the Canon 5D sensor in my experience. Same for Zeiss glass on Canon or Nikon bodies according to the pics one can view on the excellent GetDpi site. Not as good as DMR's though, due mostly to the lack of AA filter i guess. Anyway let's all use good glass, good sensor and remove or use a 'weak' AA filter and we'll take photos that Jaap will like i can bet a bottle of Normandy cider on that.

Edited by lct

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I think some of the reactions to the OP have been very rude and uncalled for. Like road rage, where one is cocooned in the security of a metal box, people here can gesticulate and mouth vitriole from the safety of their sitting rooms.

 

So grow up those responsible.

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