Overgaard Posted October 25, 2006 Share #1 Posted October 25, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) My PanaD2 took a lot of rain the other day (beacuse where I stood shooting it was raining a lot) and seemed fine for a day or two with lots of shooting. Then in the morning two days after the rain the sensor seem to be off. The EVF and screen shows the same dark blue/darkish picture as if someone was holding a hand in front of the lens. As it's the same view on both EVF and screen I'm convinced it's not the screens but indeed the sensor or at least some part of the camera resposible for relaying the sensor data. Any ideas as to what this means in repair term? A little operation or a new camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 25, 2006 Posted October 25, 2006 Hi Overgaard, Take a look here PanaD2 sensor funeral?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted October 25, 2006 Share #2 Posted October 25, 2006 I assume you have placed the camera in a warm environment overnight to try to dry it out? When a camera gets wet, it's important to act quickly because the longer you leave it, the more likely the damage will be permanent - at least rain water is not nearly as bad as salt water. I personally would not wait for the camera to go back to Solms and as I have said before, a little care, a proper screwdriver and a pair of tweezers allows you to get the camera apart in 5 minutes: - Remove the battery and memory card - Remove 5 screws from the base, 2 from the right, one from the left - Remove the rubber eye-piece surround and one screw - Ease the back off and use tweezers to disconnect the connectors. You'll then be able to see how much water has got into the camera and you can use cotton buds to remove it. If you can't see any, you need to take more of the camera apart until you do. Leaving the camera apart in a wam environment may also promote the drying out process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted October 25, 2006 Share #3 Posted October 25, 2006 Useful basic tip for an emergency dry-out, Mark. Must remember to pack a polythene bag and rubber band in my camera bag! Let us know how you get on, Thorsten! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 25, 2006 Share #4 Posted October 25, 2006 Yes, Brian, prevention is much better than cure! A friend once dropped his Nikon F2 into the sea while changing lenses, full immersion, several seconds. Rushed back to his hotel room, soaked it in several changes of wam clean water and left to dry out. Worked fine. Time really is of the essence. As regards electronic cameras, the CCD uses high impedance bias circuits which if the circuit board gets wet can cause incorrect voltages to be applied to the wrong pins of the CCD causing it to fail. Ironically, it's powering the camera on to see if it's OK which destroys the sensor, not the water itself. If at all possible, leave the camera to dry out before powering it back on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share #5 Posted October 25, 2006 Thanks. It got water on Sunday and was dryed out the night to monday just on a table. Then shot 1,600 frames monday night without any problems. Then lay the night over and next morning it was dark-blue/black in the viewfinder/display. Drying it in an oven and normally did not change any (the trick witht he oven at 50 C is quite good for mobile phones and other electronics and most stuff can handle 50 C or more) I just followed the advice and had a look inside. I'm sure it is quite dry. So probably the damage happened when it was turned on tuesday morning. So ... it will probably go to repair later today and I will know in 1-2 weeks if it is worth saving. The M4 got even more rain and of course works flawless ;-) The R8 got the same amount of rain as the PanaD2 and survived as it has several times (film back, not DMR). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 25, 2006 Share #6 Posted October 25, 2006 You shot 1600 frames with a D2! In one night! If you dried it out in the oven, I agree it's likely completely dry inside so the only solution is to send it back. Hope you can save it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael-IIIf Posted October 25, 2006 Share #7 Posted October 25, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1,600 frames in a night! - it's probably simply worn out. Seriously, I hope the repair isn't too expensive. Good luck with it, at least we hope the photos were worth getting. regards Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share #8 Posted October 25, 2006 It's been shooting 800 - 1,600 frames a day since thursday last week. I've been shotting series of 4 shots at the time (or bracketing 3 shots +/-1F when in doubts about the light) and on 2 GB cards. As some of it was many people gathered in low light, I've simply put it on 200 or 400 ISO and just shot lots. So when selecting there might be a series of 40 shots of three persons talking and then I just need to find the best of them. It's reportage so arrranging light or people was out of the question (even I did have some fun prepping rooms with light by moving spots around to get enought white light reflecing into the rooms. Didn't ask, just did it). It's not a D2 but a Pana LC1 as the D2 is hard to get. So if it's lost, it's not a big loss. I paid 500$ snd hand). My friend Lars found a D2 last week for only 800$ and I'm looking for one too. I hope I can lend his for a thing I'll be doing in few days. But else I guess I have to gear up on digital even I hate it. There is some stuff where it needs to be sent off right away. So DMR or M8 - and then maybe a D3. However, I do have an idea to be different in the sense that I believe that the best shot of an event sells the most in the end. So in cases where slide film is possible, I will go through the hassle of development and scanning just for the integrety in making some decent shots, techically speaking. I'm not impressed by the quality of photojournalists shots generally speaking. There's a lot of shoot-and-run around. I truly admire those M photographers who still do B&W film or slides for newspapers even in remote locations. That is something. Set up a darkroom in a warzone and then having to scan and send home. Jan Grarup is one of them ( http://images.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=da-dk&q=%22Jan%20Grarup%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_r_smith Posted October 25, 2006 Share #9 Posted October 25, 2006 And on the other hand, if I shoot 24 shots in a week I think it's huge compared with my normal 12 (Shoot twelve, hope for six good ones, print one each evening, just about keep up). John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted October 25, 2006 Share #10 Posted October 25, 2006 My PanaD2 took a lot of rain the other day... Too bad; I´m sorry to hear it. I was out shooting myself in that same rain (we usually get it in Stockholm a day or two after Copenhagen). I decided against using my D2, so I took my new, reputedly weather resistant, Nikon D200 instead. No problems whatsoever, although it was dripping wet after half an hour. I will be even more careful with my D2 after handling the new D3 today at a Leica demo: not impressed at all! An ungainly lump of a camera, with the dimmest reflex finder I´ve ever seen; a very minor improvement over the EVF in the D2. So if that´s the replacement, I just have to keep my D2 working! But the M8 was VERY impressive! Got to feed my piggy bank.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 25, 2006 Share #11 Posted October 25, 2006 One thing that this underscores is the importance of having a weather-sealed body for the M9. I encouraged Leica to do that with the M8 but they didn't go for it. I think that was a mistake and have said so to them. Naturally, that would mean introducing some M lenses with gaskets which certainly could be done. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted October 25, 2006 Share #12 Posted October 25, 2006 One of the most important things to do if you get the insides of a camera wet is to remove all of the batteries as fast as possible. That includes any button lithium cell that's used to hold time/date and settings etc. Most cameras never completely power down when "switched off" so that is not sufficient. If you leave wet circuit boards with voltage applied the big bug bear is electrolysis which can create very corrosive compounds. These will etch/short out circuit conductors and other components. They can also lead to long term reliability problems. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted October 25, 2006 Share #13 Posted October 25, 2006 If you leave wet circuit boards with voltage applied the big bug bear is electrolysis Bob, great advice! Will this electrolysis remove hair too?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gepetto Posted October 25, 2006 Share #14 Posted October 25, 2006 Thorsten are you sure this was not a ploy to convince Maibritt so you can get the Digilux 3. Not sure if this helps but Panasonic offers an extended warranty plan for $99(US). I think it is 24 months parts and labor. You could try to purchase the extended warranty before contacting them for repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesh Posted October 26, 2006 Share #15 Posted October 26, 2006 It's been shooting 800 - 1,600 frames a day since thursday last week. I've been shotting series of 4 shots at the time (or bracketing 3 shots +/-1F when in doubts about the light) and on 2 GB cards. As some of it was many people gathered in low light, I've simply put it on 200 or 400 ISO and just shot lots. . Thorsten, Sorry to read of the sickness of your overworked LC1, hope it can be resuscitated. Personally never going to undertake such a challenge, but I'm intrigued by the strategy. Is it a question of auto, with manual focusing, a spare battery or two, plus numerous SD cards? Just intellectual curiosity - as in ' how'd he do that'. Hope you can post some of the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share #16 Posted October 26, 2006 Had I had only 1GB card I would have chosen another strategy. It's 2 x 2GB cards (Kingston 50x speed with a USB-stick that takes SD-cards) and a labtop nearby, auto everything if you can, but mostly you have to go manual on focus to get it right, and on the light you have to go manual too to get enough light. White balance is also a hell to adjust all the time. Often when you get enought light or a 1/2 F to the ligth side, color temperature becomes of less importance. Here's some samples of what I did. The last ones is in a tent/expo where I planted and re-arrranged several spots before people arrived to have enought 'available light.' Good thing witht he LC is (was) that it's black and I had taped everything black on it. So a fully black camera with no flast - you can shoot a lot without influencing the event itself. 90% of it is not for print but for the people on the photos or those who arranged it. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/7841-panad2-sensor-funeral/?do=findComment&comment=77934'>More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 26, 2006 Share #17 Posted October 26, 2006 The more I think of it, the more the D2 is a keeper for me as the definitive P&S. With it's 28mm EqFov and f2, there's nothing an M8 will do to go that wide and fast. You need instead to rely on the M8 having lower noise at higher ISO. True it has higher resolution - double the pixels but only 1.4 times the linear resolution. With a 21mm lens, it's also something like 6 - 8 times the price. Thorsten, what ISO were you using for these? Leica M earned its available light credentials from the Noctilux and Summiluxes and we badly need more lens speed in the 21-28mm range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugby Posted October 26, 2006 Share #18 Posted October 26, 2006 The more I think of it, the more the D2 is a keeper for me as the definitive P&S. With it's 28mm EqFov and f2, there's nothing an M8 will do to go that wide and fast. You need instead to rely on the M8 having lower noise at higher ISO. True it has higher resolution - double the pixels but only 1.4 times the linear resolution. With a 21mm lens, it's also something like 6 - 8 times the price. Thorsten, what ISO were you using for these? Leica M earned its available light credentials from the Noctilux and Summiluxes and we badly need more lens speed in the 21-28mm range. Totally agree. about you D2/M8 comments I've been intending to spend some money on an M8/lens combo, and to get 3 (21, 35 and 90) equivalent focal lengths to my D2, I've figured the combined cost to be maybe 10-12x the cost of my D2. However I'm really 'past' swapping lenses. Hence my previous questions about whether a "R Vario Elmar 28-90" might work on an M8 Maybe my next logical upgrade for my D2 may well be a "R Vario Elmar 28-90" on a 5D, damit.... and i hate mirror slap......... or a V-Lux2 with the M8 sensor......(Leica planners..... please consider) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share #19 Posted October 26, 2006 It's 200 ISO except no 2 that is 400 (and a 60% crop). I'm not sure the D3 is not a good camera. Depends on the lenses. What the D2 lacks is RAW speed and continious speed on JPG. And then 8 - 12 MP. The D2 seem very effective and fast and it actually lies great in the hands. The EVF I really don't know what to think about. You get used to it and just consider it a frame, not a precise preview. The M8 has the true viewfinder that is needed. Absolutely doubt about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted October 26, 2006 Share #20 Posted October 26, 2006 The more I think of it, the more the D2 is a keeper for me as the definitive P&S. ........[snip] Absolutely agree, Mark. It's a real (if flawed) gem. All us D2 types moan about its inadequacies and pray that Leica will relent and issue at least a firmware upgrade, however uncommercial that operation is likely to be. But is it possible that the firmware/software already present is not capable of being upgraded? Unlike, it appears, the L-1 which has already had a firmware upgrade issued. BTW, will the features be incorporated into the production D3 firmware? If the firmware won't/can't be upgraded we are stuck with what we've got and must learn as many tricks as we can to get the most out of our beloved friend. My take on the D3 is that it quite likely has a lens that could well be as good, but boy is it a big bu***r! And that is a bit off-putting. Ho hum, at least the V-lux1 seems likely to produce excellent results for long range stuff. And finally - excellent results Thorsten - well done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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