Das Boot and Leica

[thrid]

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As I recall Herbert Grönemeyer (Lt. Werner is`nt it?) uses a Leica IIIF with a Summitar!!!!!!!!

There`s a part in the movie where he turns the back to the camera around so you see the back of the upper part of the top plate and there`s a flash sync port there!!!!!!!! Needless to say that`s 100% wrong, but you KNOW how these modern movies can be.

Tom

 

Are you serious? A sync port? I never noticed that...

 

Great, now i'm going to have to watch the film again...

[robert_parker]

The Summitar came out in 1939. WWII ran from 1939 - 1945.

The Summicron inherited a lot of the DNA from the Summicron and a batch of 50 (?) prototypes were

disguised as Summitar lenses. They are marked with an '*' (asterix).

 

Anastigmat / Elmax 3.5/50 (1925)

Elmar 3.5/50 (1925)

Hektor 2.5/50 (1930)

Summar 2.0/50 (1933)

Xenon 1.5/50 (1935)

Summitar 2.0/50 (1939)

Summicron (v1) 2.0/50 collapsible (1953)

Summarit 1.5/50 (1954)

Summicron (v2) Rigid/DR 2.0/50 (1957)

Elmar 2.8/50 (v1) (1957)

Summilux (v1) 1.4/50 (1959)

Summilux (v2) 1.4/50 (1961)

Noctilux 1.2/50 (1966)

Summicron (v3) 2.0/50 (1969)

Noctilux 1.0/50 (1976)

Summicron-M (v4/current) 2.0/50 (1979)

Elmar-M 2.8/50 (v2) (1994)

Anastigmat 3.5/50 (2002)

Summilux-M ASPH 1.4/50 (2004)

Summarit 2.5/50 (2007)

Noctilux 0.95/50 (2008)

 

That's a a really useful list - Is it really the case that the most recent 'pre-Aspheric' Summilux was first produced in 1961 ?

[thrid]

That's a a really useful list - Is it really the case that the most recent 'pre-Aspheric' Summilux was first produced in 1961 ?

 

Yep, that's correct. It was in production for over 40 years.

 

I have several 50mm Nikkors from the same period, including the f1.4 and f2.0 models (the Nikkor-H.C 2/50 is one of my favorites). The 50 Lux slaughters them. It's not even close. The Lux (v2) must have been a jaw dopping revelation, when it was released. Similar to how the 50 Lux ASPH stacks up to current 50's.

 

I have the E46 version that focuses to .7 meters.

 

I also own or have owned the Canon EF 1.4/50, next to current Nikkor 1.4/50 (the newest one was just released a few weeks ago) and Zeiss ZF Planar 1.4/50. The scarry thing is that the 40 year old Lux will outperform or match any of them, especially wide open. Overall the Lux has the best balance of sharpness, contrast, tonality and bokeh of the bunch. The Achilles heel of the pre-ASPH Lux is it's performance close up and wide open. At 70cm / 1 meter it get's a little dreamy due to the lack of a floating element, but shots taken from 2-3 meters away are noticeably sharper and have great clarity. If you're at the minimum focusing distance stop down to 2.8 or better and it sharpens up nicely.

 

It truly is one of the best lenses Leica has made and my main 50 on the M.

Edited March 22, 2009 by thrid

[thrid]

"The Summicron inherited a lot of the DNA from the Summicron and a batch of 50 (?) prototypes were

disguised as Summitar lenses. They are marked with an '*' (asterix)."

 

That should say:

 

The Summicron inherited a lot of the DNA from the SUMMITAR and a batch of 50 (?) prototypes were

disguised as Summitars. They are marked with an '*' (asterix).

[TimF]

I only know of one photographer who primarily shot with a Contax II and that was Robert Capa.

I have a feeling that Bert Hardy also used a Contax until it was destroyed. He was then issued with a Zeiss Super Ikonta, which he detested.

[jaapv]

The Summitar came out in 1939. WWII ran from 1939 - 1945.

The Summicron inherited a lot of the DNA from the Summicron and a batch of 50 (?) prototypes were

disguised as Summitar lenses. They are marked with an '*' (asterix).

 

Anastigmat / Elmax 3.5/50 (1925)

Elmar 3.5/50 (1925)

Hektor 2.5/50 (1930)

Summar 2.0/50 (1933)

Xenon 1.5/50 (1935)

Summitar 2.0/50 (1939)

Summicron (v1) 2.0/50 collapsible (1953)

Summarit 1.5/50 (1954)

Summicron (v2) Rigid/DR 2.0/50 (1957)

Elmar 2.8/50 (v1) (1957)

Summilux (v1) 1.4/50 (1959)

Summilux (v2) 1.4/50 (1961)

Noctilux 1.2/50 (1966)

Summicron (v3) 2.0/50 (1969)

Noctilux 1.0/50 (1976)

Summicron-M (v4/current) 2.0/50 (1979)

Elmar-M 2.8/50 (v2) (1994)

Anastigmat 3.5/50 (2002)

Summilux-M ASPH 1.4/50 (2004)

Summarit 2.5/50 (2007)

Noctilux 0.95/50 (2008)

 

 

Sorry, the Summarit 50/1.5 was produced from 1949 (first batch of 144 pcs)

 

Edit : I ran through the whole list and there are a few small corrections:

 

Anastigmat 1924

Elmax 1925

Xenon 1.5/50 (Is the same as the Summarit, only without coating) 1936

Nah-Summicron 1956 aka DR Summicron

Summilux V2 1962

 

 

Source:

Leica Pocket Book

Brian Tomkins

1964 Oskar Barnack Cameras Ltd & Hove Foto Books

Edited March 23, 2009 by jaapv

[thrid]

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Sorry, the Summarit 50/1.5 was produced from 1949 (first batch of 144 pcs)

 

Edit : I ran through the whole list and there are a few small corrections:

 

Anastigmat 1924

Elmax 1925

Xenon 1.5/50 (Is the same as the Summarit, only without coating) 1936

Nah-Summicron 1956 aka DR Summicron

Summilux V2 1962

 

 

Source:

Leica Pocket Book

Brian Tomkins

1964 Oskar Barnack Cameras Ltd & Hove Foto Books

 

Thanks, I pulled my dates from Puts' lens book.

[thrid]

I have a feeling that Bert Hardy also used a Contax until it was destroyed. He was then issued with a Zeiss Super Ikonta, which he detested.

 

Eugene Smith also had one. Apparently he shot a lot of the material on the aircraft carrier with it and was almost fired, because at that time LIFE insisted on at least rollfilm or 4x5. That rule went out the window pretty quickly, as almost no one wanted to run around in combat with a Speed Graphic and the image quality of 135 turned out to be sifficient.

[jaapv]

Thanks, I pulled my dates from Puts' lens book.

 

I'll discuss it with Erwin whenever I happen to meet him Btw, I'm not much better with dates I see, the book is from 1984, not 1964...

 

On the cameras used, there is an interesting thread on the subject on PNet:

 

http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00LIi9

Edited March 23, 2009 by jaapv

[dkCambridgeshire]

WIKI is interesting reading  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar-Günther_Buchheim

[bags27]

On 2/27/2024 at 5:34 PM, dkCambridgeshire said:

WIKI is interesting reading  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar-Günther_Buchheim

The first season of the TV series is available in the States now, and it is very, very good. 

[david strachan]

I loved  and watched couple of  times, the whole series, perhaps twice, right (mostly) through.

Can't get better for cinematography, drama, acting...really pinnacle stuff.

I certainly noticed the Leica...but the overall filming and affect overtook the exact model, but close enough to my IIIc (f conversion)..

Fantastic series really, I'll watch it all again.

...

[Zeitblom]

No matter which Barnack-Leica Herbert Grönemeyer poses with, which films made at the time could have been used to take photos in a poorly lit submarine without certainly forbidden flash powder or a cumbersome tripod?

[thrid]

9 hours ago, Zeitblom said:

No matter which Barnack-Leica Herbert Grönemeyer poses with, which films made at the time could have been used to take photos in a poorly lit submarine without certainly forbidden flash powder or a cumbersome tripod?

It's been a while since I saw the film, but I recall a scene with Grönemeyer rapidly taking action snaps of the crew loading torpedos in almost no light and thinking to myself "uhhh, sure..."
Not going to happened with 25 / 50 asa film and no flash on a slow lens.

Fantastic movie though.

A few years back I worked for a company located on the Bavaria Filmstadt lot in Munich. The actual Boot was just outside our office and I would walk past it every morning. There also was the conning tower and the miniature of the u-boat. It was interesting to actually tour the boat, so many years after seeing the film. Apparently it is an extremely accurate reconstruction and certainly looks the part.

On another note I believe the reason why the Contax I didn't catch on like the Leica did was due to poor reliability. Apparently the shutter in the Contax I was quite unreliable and difficult to repair. It's a made up of a series of metal slats backing the cloth and unlike anything else I have ever seen.  If I recall correctly I read somewhere that the camera is made up of something like 1200 parts, which seems kind of insane, but typical of German over engineering. This seems to have been a general problem with a lot of Zeiss cameras of that era. Fantastic glass, but over engineered and unreliable mechanics. Another example would be their TLR cameras.

The Contax II (1936->) was a big improvement, but again much more complicated than a Leica LTM.

I also believe that the Contax was more expensive than a Leica.

With the outbreak of the war Zeiss shifted production to other optical devices and concentrated less on cameras.

The one big advantage that Zeiss had over everyone else was the Sonnar 1.5/50, which was considered the best 50 around, until Nikon introduced their clone and then the 1.4/50 in the 1950's (see David Douglas Duncan and the Korean War). Leica regained the crown for best 50 in 1953/54 with the Summicron 2/50, but it wasn't until the arrival of the Summilux 1.4/50 that they dominated the high speed 50 market, again.

 

[Danner]

On 2/22/2009 at 5:39 PM, thrid said:

 

The Summitar came out in 1939. WWII ran from 1939 - 1945.

The Summicron inherited a lot of the DNA from the Summicron and a batch of 50 (?) prototypes were

disguised as Summitar lenses. They are marked with an '*' (asterix).

 

Anastigmat / Elmax 3.5/50 (1925)

Elmar 3.5/50 (1925)

Hektor 2.5/50 (1930)

Summar 2.0/50 (1933)

Xenon 1.5/50 (1935)

Summitar 2.0/50 (1939)

Summicron (v1) 2.0/50 collapsible (1953)

Summarit 1.5/50 (1954)

Summicron (v2) Rigid/DR 2.0/50 (1957)

Elmar 2.8/50 (v1) (1957)

Summilux (v1) 1.4/50 (1959)

Summilux (v2) 1.4/50 (1961)

Noctilux 1.2/50 (1966)

Summicron (v3) 2.0/50 (1969)

Noctilux 1.0/50 (1976)

Summicron-M (v4/current) 2.0/50 (1979)

Elmar-M 2.8/50 (v2) (1994)

Anastigmat 3.5/50 (2002)

Summilux-M ASPH 1.4/50 (2004)

Summarit 2.5/50 (2007)

Noctilux 0.95/50 (2008)

I have a vintage 1953 Summitar.

[ernst_leitz]

On 2/21/2009 at 11:25 PM, RITskellar said:

 

Anybody have a screen shot to attach? Should be relatively easy to tell the difference between a IIIa/b and a IIIc, as the c has a one piece top that extends down to the lens mount.

 

[jaapv]

On 3/25/2024 at 3:38 PM, thrid said:

It's been a while since I saw the film, but I recall a scene with Grönemeyer rapidly taking action snaps of the crew loading torpedos in almost no light and thinking to myself "uhhh, sure..."
Not going to happened with 25 / 50 asa film and no flash on a slow lens.

Fantastic movie though.

A few years back I worked for a company located on the Bavaria Filmstadt lot in Munich. The actual Boot was just outside our office and I would walk past it every morning. There also was the conning tower and the miniature of the u-boat. It was interesting to actually tour the boat, so many years after seeing the film. Apparently it is an extremely accurate reconstruction and certainly looks the part.

On another note I believe the reason why the Contax I didn't catch on like the Leica did was due to poor reliability. Apparently the shutter in the Contax I was quite unreliable and difficult to repair. It's a made up of a series of metal slats backing the cloth and unlike anything else I have ever seen.  If I recall correctly I read somewhere that the camera is made up of something like 1200 parts, which seems kind of insane, but typical of German over engineering. This seems to have been a general problem with a lot of Zeiss cameras of that era. Fantastic glass, but over engineered and unreliable mechanics. Another example would be their TLR cameras.

The Contax II (1936->) was a big improvement, but again much more complicated than a Leica LTM.

I also believe that the Contax was more expensive than a Leica.

With the outbreak of the war Zeiss shifted production to other optical devices and concentrated less on cameras.

The one big advantage that Zeiss had over everyone else was the Sonnar 1.5/50, which was considered the best 50 around, until Nikon introduced their clone and then the 1.4/50 in the 1950's (see David Douglas Duncan and the Korean War). Leica regained the crown for best 50 in 1953/54 with the Summicron 2/50, but it wasn't until the arrival of the Summilux 1.4/50 that they dominated the high speed 50 market, again.

 

The Leica Xenon 5cm 1.5 was introduced in 1936,  the Summarit 50 1.5 was introduced in 1949. 

The parallel development of such lenses is documented here:

https://www.35mmc.com/29/04/2020/zeiss-jena-5cm-sonnars-the-magic-of-the-prewar-uncoated-sonnar-by-brian-sweeney/