Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 11, 2009 Share #21 Posted February 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just want to know if we just happened to skip to April 1st. LOL Any serious banker would keep his mouth shut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here Panasonic in talks to buy Leica from Mr. Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted February 11, 2009 Share #22 Posted February 11, 2009 Interesting - I read this article this morning........ Japan's ailing electronic firms | Unplugged | The Economist On the one hand you could say the rumour has some validity, in that maybe Panasonic are looking to differentiate themselves from other Japanese consumer electronics companices. Or you could say in the current climate, why would they be thinking of spending money to take on the liabilities of such a specialist/niche business which has little relevance to the Panasonic core business (in terms of the film cameras, sports optics and planned R10/S2 ranges). Personally I hope the rumours are false, but there is scope for Leica to allow more branding of the Panasonic lenses for the 4/3 and micro 4/3 cameras and digicams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 11, 2009 Share #23 Posted February 11, 2009 .......and I want to know what a flippant banker would say about it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 11, 2009 Share #24 Posted February 11, 2009 .......and I want to know what a flippant banker would say about it! "I'm terribly sorry for buggering up the economy. Can I have my bonus now?". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 11, 2009 Share #25 Posted February 11, 2009 Germany will not, and shouldn't, allow Leica to be sold to foreign companies. Leica is a symbol of German industry. I suppose Leica will benefit from public funds in support of the industry. The German government is supporting the financial and productive sectors during this terrible crisis. Panasonic can sustain Leica's activities in Germany but, why would they do it? Panasonic (and Sony) are electronic companies without deep tradition in the photographic industry, but these gigant companies reinforce their brand names in every sector in which they operate. Sony erased any Konica-Minolta mention, and they only keep Zeiss for a special line of lenses (premium line). Panasonic already has this from Leica for compact cameras, and they could have it too for micro 4/3 cameras, if they want to. If Panasonic buys Leica, what is the benefit for them? A line of premium professional cameras (3 different systems) and lenses with Leica brand? It would make sense only if the Leica name disappears from the cameras, and is used only for premium lenses (Panasonic brand would be reinforced then, as Sony was after K-M purchase)... Is professional photography a natural line of expansion for Panasonic? Leica must be profitable as soon as possible, but the investment necessary is huge (new plant, new product lines, R&D investments...) and the profit is uncertain... For the moment, Kauffmann is providing all the resources needed, and integrating Leica into his industrial holding of manufacturing companies. I wish and hope this process will continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted February 11, 2009 Share #26 Posted February 11, 2009 Or you could say in the current climate, why would they be thinking of spending money to take on the liabilities of such a specialist/niche business which has little relevance to the Panasonic core business (in terms of the film cameras, sports optics and planned R10/S2 ranges). Perhaps they are thinking longer term, Leica might be cheap at the moment, Over time Panasonic might be able to bring economies of scale and expand the market for the drf or even upgrade its technology! Lots of things are possible. Leica has been struggling over the last 20 years as a very small fish in an ocean. Look how Leica are going: no new digital M, things are very quiet on the S2 front and the R10 front, the new lenses are designed but their intro seems to be put back. The M8 was and still is a massive drain on their service capability and profitablilty. Effort spend recently on 'easy' money with special editions. Dr Kaufman will probably have suffered financially in this crisis, maybe time to concede that Leica's investment requirements are even more than his wealth can cope with. It would be nice if Leica could stay independant and forge their future with just strategic alliances but in this world is it realistic? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 11, 2009 Share #27 Posted February 11, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) My final thoughts on this one Maybe now we will get a electronic viewfinder for the M8. LOL Seriously I think this is not reality. Kaufman has plenty of money and for him Leica is a pride thing more than a money making adventure. He has many many businesses to absorb any leica loses it could be taking. Of course they will make cost savings a priority but there in the middle of building and moving back to Wetzler and ready to go into production on the S2. I could see more cooperation with Panasonic on camera's like the g1 and such but there high end stuff will be pure leica Germany. If most people only knew how much history, pride and effort leica has to be the absolute best quality camera maker out there than talks like this would never come up. They will sink before they give it up to anyone. They made some mistakes sure but to them that was just a first go round. The S2 ,M9 and R10 will be there redemption products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf DeBoeck Posted February 11, 2009 Share #28 Posted February 11, 2009 Can't imagine this happening.... but wouldn't be surprised as it would make sense and I also think that Panasonic would keep the brand intact .... but then again Kaufmann is a business man and will act accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 11, 2009 Share #29 Posted February 11, 2009 Anyone who wants to spread a rumor can fake his source, and let's not forget, many dpreview rumors eventually turned into reality ... investment bankers aren't worth much these days anyways. LOL I believe the investment in Leica is not to the best interest of Dr. Kaufmann's business, there're people rich enough to send himself into orbit yet not everyone who has the capacity wants to do so. Look at the flip side, it can be a fabulous deal for Dr. Kaufmann to strike as well ... imagine the sale would happen in 4 or 5 years ago, Leica would be worth almost nothing then ... I'm guessing that's why he wanted to take the business private so when a fire sale happens he doesn't need to bother with other share holders. German companies have given up on so many frontiers, why not this one? if anyone else can bring brighter future to Leica, by all means let it happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 11, 2009 Share #30 Posted February 11, 2009 ... Is professional photography a natural line of expansion for Panasonic? They already sell to the professional broadcasting markets (video cameras, AV etc.) so it could well be, but I very much doubt it would look anything like Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermcwerner Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share #31 Posted February 11, 2009 The S2 ,M9 and R10 will be there redemption products.Guy, I understand your emotional involvement with Leica. Most of us who have been using, buying, supporting their products for years, sympathize with the company. But in the current economic crisis pride and efforts are not enough to survive; you need competitive products and fast time to market. Both have been missing lately; prices have become out of reach and apart from the S2 adventure, both the M and the R lines look antiquated. Leitz has started its camera success story with a bold innovation, the introduction of the Barnack 35mm camera at a high but still affordable price. Today this spirit of innovation seems missing. The S2 is perhaps a technically interesting toy, but it reminds me of the great luxury cars of the 30es, the Dusenberg, Cord, Maybach, Horch, Isotta Fraschini, Hispano Suiza, that did not survive the depression and only live on as collectors items or in films like Sunset Boulevard. By the time the R10 makes it to market, most R photographers (including you and me) will have switched to Nikon or Canon. We had great expectations for a new M at the Photokina The main problems, the use of IR filters and the mechanical RF technology, its lack of precision with longer and superfast lenses have not been corrected. It would have needed a new, revolutionary design, such as the solutions included in the G1. Instead, we got a less noisy shutter, a scratch-proof screen and a few other niceties. I hope I shall be wrong, but to me the S2 ,M9 and R10 will not be their redemption but their gravestone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf DeBoeck Posted February 11, 2009 Share #32 Posted February 11, 2009 Also small sensor wise they do produce innovative and good quality products.... LX3, G1, L1 etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 11, 2009 Share #33 Posted February 11, 2009 If i were Kauffmann i would be pleased to sell Leica before i loose too much money (the S2 project looks so silly, sorry), and if i were Pana i would be pleased to own the Leica name but i would have nothing to do with Solms i'm afraid. Fortunately, i'm only me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest volkerm Posted February 11, 2009 Share #34 Posted February 11, 2009 Germany will not, and shouldn't, allow Leica to be sold to foreign companies. Leica is already owned by a foreign investment company Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf DeBoeck Posted February 11, 2009 Share #35 Posted February 11, 2009 I guess the Leica trademark/name will be worth more than it's actual assets.... The more I think of it the more attractive it seems, high profile QA/QC experience in electronics, very targetted R&D, and don't they make their own sensors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 11, 2009 Share #36 Posted February 11, 2009 Let me get this straight... we are debating a RUMOUR, right? Just checking... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted February 11, 2009 Share #37 Posted February 11, 2009 Let me get this straight... we are debating a RUMOUR, right? Just checking... Regards, Bill Bill - you are too late, over 30 odd posts it must now be fact and heading into historical legend! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wls.shanghai Posted February 11, 2009 Share #38 Posted February 11, 2009 this pseudo news from a "alleged" "serious banker" ? is - for me a calculated assassination! wls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted February 11, 2009 Share #39 Posted February 11, 2009 I think this is a fact. The introduction of the green M8.2 has changed things completely and tripled the Leica value, despite financial crisis, and Kaufmann would be a fool not to sell. Everybody is talking about green tech. Leica got it. I asked my banker if I should buy an M8.2 and he said "no, wait" Those bankers know things we don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted February 11, 2009 Share #40 Posted February 11, 2009 Let me get this straight... we are debating a RUMOUR, right? Just checking... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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