M8 IR - how to get the best from it?

[j_lir]

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so a 092 is the filter to get?

i'm about to grab one for my wide angle 15 zm distagon as well as a summaron 3.5.

anyone know bout hot spots on the 15 zm distagon?

 

thanks in advance.

[wlaidlaw]

so a 092 is the filter to get?

i'm about to grab one for my wide angle 15 zm distagon as well as a summaron 3.5.

anyone know bout hot spots on the 15 zm distagon?

 

thanks in advance.

 

 

It is very much down to personal choice. I like the B+W 092, which allows in a tiny amount of visible light. The 093 is pretty much opaque to visible light. You can often pick up the older Kodak Wratten filters on ePrey for next to no money but the filters are frequently in odd sizes with strange threads, tapered etc, so you may need to move the glass to a modern filter ring/holder. Some people prefer the Heliopan IR filters but I suspect there is not a whole lot of difference from the B+W. If you like IR, do a thread search for Tim Ashley's Photoshopping techniques on IR, which can bring a whole new dimension to IR shots.

 

Wilson

[russell c. greenberg]

Jesse, You can also try the Hoya R72 filters as well. Another option is the Leitz "IR" filters that I mentioned on another thread. Caveat Emptor! the Leitz filters are rare and will cost you plenty if you find them. If price is a concern, try the Hoya filter I mentioned before. Other members on this forum have used them and are happy with the results. Russell

[brill64]

I've posted some of these images before but processed rather differently. They're all taken on an M8 with CV 35 F2.5 Skopar and the ones with motion blur (intentional) are ISO 160 and long-ish exposures (1/11th and 1.5 seconds) whereas the one with no blur (the first one) was at 1/90th and ISO 640. The filter was a B+W 092 IR

 

I've been rather bored with the reddish/magenta look of the files and experimentation usually had them looking best in B&W but I had hankered to try a look I saw on PBase a while back for example at

 

IR - infrared crazy colours 2 #177 photo - Daniella T. photos at pbase.com

 

Now I've worked it out. Finally. The effect is rather 'fun with filters' but here's what you do:

 

Open the file in Photoshop.

Image>Adjust>Auto Colors

Image>Adjust>Channel Mixer then invert then swap the red and blue values in each of the red and blue channels.

 

Then back to LR for some cleaning up.

 

These are just down and dirty but I think it beats the pink look!

 

you know what? it totally beats the pink look, well done and i love it!

 

john

[brill64]

Now I've worked it out. Finally. The effect is rather 'fun with filters' but here's what you do:

 

Open the file in Photoshop.

Image>Adjust>Auto Colors

Image>Adjust>Channel Mixer then invert then swap the red and blue values in each of the red and blue channels.

 

Then back to LR for some cleaning up.

 

i tried it but couldn't get your colors...could you explain the channel mixer invert and swap process?

 

tnks...john

[brill64]

okie, sry fr acting dumb..

some experimentation resulted in this:

hand-held and with a 35lux, i tried to

eradicated the pink spot in the middle

but without much luck:

 

still quite pinky though...

keep trying

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[jaapv]

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Yes- the Summiluxes are not very good IR lenses. Hot spot as you see. Try an old type lens. Summaron, for instance.

[russell c. greenberg]

I started experimenting with IR in the M8 right out of the box almost three years ago. The IR capabilities of the M8 were one of the reasons I purchased the camera. I use an old chrome Leica IR filter, of which I have no clue as to its NM range, a Hoya IR and a Lee IR gel cut to fit the shade for my 35 cron. I shoot RAW, open in PS3, go directly to channels and convert to monochrome, adjust RGB, open curves to pull up blacks and retain highlights, adjust levels if needed. Here is a link to my article in LFI.

LFI Gallery - Galerie

 

Offshire, Do I need PS3 to open these files or can I open in Lightroom?( the only software I have at the moment) Russell

[tashley]

okie, sry fr acting dumb..

some experimentation resulted in this:

hand-held and with a 35lux, i tried to

eradicated the pink spot in the middle

but without much luck:

 

still quite pinky though...

keep trying

 

Brill, what can i say... if you follow my instructions you'll get my result... I can't see what you're doing so I can't see what you're doing wrong, sorry! But I suggest that you use the filter I used and the workflow I described. Otherwise J's suggestion not to use luxes might work - I mostly used other glass.

 

t

[brill64]

thanks jaapv and thanks tashley. it's out with the lux's then..i'm a bit obsessive with blues which is why i am very attracted to your images. i'm using a b+w 0.72, auto color (which renders color ir like the tungsten setting), fiddling with the red, green and blue sliders in adj>chann mixer, changing the channels each time before adju..a bit hit and miss and still pink but you have really got it down to a fine art..i think that like many other posters here on the forum, your thread has really got everyone enthusiastic about ir again. i certainly am:)

thanks a lot!

 

john

[MikeMyers]

I've been trying this out. I'll attach three images, one a "normal" shot, one taken with my deep red IR filter (specifications unknown), and the third one after following the above suggestions. I'm wondering if I'm doing this right, as I'm not sure if the result I'm getting is what I'm supposed to get.

 

Photo was taken with a 35mm Summilux, but obviously my focus is off. I'll have to do some testing to see what works better. Focus was left at infinity, but I'll try a closer setting.

 

I had expected the trees and grass to come out a white color, with a deep blue sky. Maybe I need to play with the settings a bit more, or maybe I need to get a better IR filter, that I can't see through. Mine is from 35 (or more) years ago, and is a very, very deep red in color.

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[wlaidlaw]

Mike,

 

I think what you need to do is to do a manual white balance with the IR filter on and then do the channel mixer thing. BTW that photo looks like that it might be a standard dark red filter not an IR filter. They are not the same. What filter is it - maker and number. Older IR filters often have a Wratten number on them. B+W filters are 092 and 093, Hoya R73 and Heliopan a huge range of filters - see here Heliopan Infrared Filters .

 

Wilson

[grahamm]

Not leica-related, but this site:

 

Digital IR Choices - Khromagery

 

has quite a bit of useful information on processing for IR images, together with advice about which filters to choose. (They used to convert cameras for IR and I have a Canon EOS300D that they converted for me 3 or 4 years ago).

 

Graham

[jaapv]

Mike,

 

I think what you need to do is to do a manual white balance with the IR filter on and then do the channel mixer thing. BTW that photo looks like that it might be a standard dark red filter not an IR filter. They are not the same. What filter is it - maker and number. Older IR filters often have a Wratten number on them. B+W filters are 092 and 093, Hoya R73 and Heliopan a huge range of filters - see here Heliopan Infrared Filters .

 

Wilson

The thing to do is to go into LAB and manipulate the curves of the A and (to a lesser extent) B channel.

[wlaidlaw]

The Khromagery action is rather good. Here is a trial with it (Marlyland State house in Annapolis). BTW it does work in CS4 but even after you flatten visible layers, reduce image size and convert mode to 8 bits, it results in a huge JPEG. To get round this you have to convert mode to lab colour and then back to RGB - don't know why but this works to reduce file size. The first photo is the original IR (B+W 092), the second after Khormagery + a bit of tweaking in levels and highlight recovery.

 

Wilson

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[MikeMyers]

Mike,

 

I think what you need to do is to do a manual white balance with the IR filter on and then do the channel mixer thing. BTW that photo looks like that it might be a standard dark red filter not an IR filter. They are not the same. What filter is it - maker and number. Older IR filters often have a Wratten number on them. B+W filters are 092 and 093, Hoya R73 and Heliopan a huge range of filters - see here Heliopan Infrared Filters .

 

Wilson

 

 

I'm not sure what filter I've got. My memory from almost half a century ago is that I bought an IR filter to use with the old IR films, and stored it away with all my other RF stuff when I got into the Nikon F world. It's far too small to be useful on a Nikon F lens. It looks like it's "black", but when you hold it up to the light it's a very dark red in color. It has a knurled chrome metal ring around it, with no markings. Obviously I should get myself a "real" IR filter, which I can do on my visit to B&H in a couple of weeks.

 

I did the manual color balance, and it got rid of the magenta cast - that's probably a step in the right direction.

 

In Photoshop CS3, when I go to "image > adjust > channel mixer" I get a screen that says "Channel Mixer". On it, there are three choices for Output Channel, Red, Green, and Blue. Each of these has the three choices for "Source Channels".

 

When Output is set to "Red", Source Channels has +100% for red, and 0 for Blue. When I change the Output Channel to "Blue", these settings are reversed, with 0 for Red, and +100% for Blue.

 

My interpretation of the above instructions is that I just swap the "0" and "+100" for red and blue, in both Output Channels. Is this correct? Am I missing something?

[wlaidlaw]

I'm not sure what filter I've got. My memory from almost half a century ago is that I bought an IR filter to use with the old IR films, and stored it away with all my other RF stuff when I got into the Nikon F world. It's far too small to be useful on a Nikon F lens. It looks like it's "black", but when you hold it up to the light it's a very dark red in color. It has a knurled chrome metal ring around it, with no markings. Obviously I should get myself a "real" IR filter, which I can do on my visit to B&H in a couple of weeks.

 

I did the manual color balance, and it got rid of the magenta cast - that's probably a step in the right direction.

 

In Photoshop CS3, when I go to "image > adjust > channel mixer" I get a screen that says "Channel Mixer". On it, there are three choices for Output Channel, Red, Green, and Blue. Each of these has the three choices for "Source Channels".

 

When Output is set to "Red", Source Channels has +100% for red, and 0 for Blue. When I change the Output Channel to "Blue", these settings are reversed, with 0 for Red, and +100% for Blue.

 

My interpretation of the above instructions is that I just swap the "0" and "+100" for red and blue, in both Output Channels. Is this correct? Am I missing something?

 

Mike,

 

I found it best to click on Auto colour correct before going into channels. However I still think the problem is you did not do a manual WB on first taking the image. Your initial image before you start playing with it should look something like the first of my two images above.

 

Wilson

[MikeMyers]

I tried things exactly as you suggested (I hope!).

 

First image is the scene with "normal" settings.

Second image is the same, but after doing the manual white balance procedure, no filter.

Third image is the same scene, through my filter.

Last image is after doing "auto color", then the channel changes, then "auto levels".

 

 

Is this closer to what you are used to seeing? It's getting closer to your two example photos, but I'm surprised that the sky is a "steel gray" color, and not a dark blue. Maybe this needs additional adjustment. I also probably need to increase the saturation a bit, to match the effect I remember seeing in my IR slide film.

 

Is there a way to check my filter, to see if it's really an IR filter or just a very dark red regular filter?

 

As to focus, it seems if I set the focus to 30 feet, rather than infinity, the sharpness is greatly improved. I wish the lens had some kind of marking for IR focus, but I'm getting pretty close.

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[MikeMyers]

One last image. I boosted the saturation by 50%, and added some blue. This is closer to the kind of images I remember getting from the IR Ektachrome, but this is from so long ago that I can't remember. I'll either have to find my old slides, or try to buy another roll of film (if it's still even available, that is...)

 

I assume if I get a "real" IR filter, trees and plants will turn a white color similar to those in the picture you uploaded above?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wlaidlaw]

Mike,

 

I am afraid your boosted image makes my teeth ache. I think you are pretty close on the unboosted image. Maybe try playing with levels or curves in each colour separately. On procedure, I am not sure. What you normally do, is do a manual WB on a approximately neutral grey surface (no need to be fussy) with the filter fitted to the camera. I find ISO 320 or 640 works best, as you can then stop down a bit to minimise hot spots and widen DOF. On the filter itself - are there any markings on it? If if has a number like 87C, 88A, 89B etc, that is a Wratten number and describes its function as a filter in terms of the frequencies filtered and passed. See here for Wratten de-coding Wratten number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - like most Wiki stuff this list is incomplete.

 

Wilson