Shootist Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share #161 Posted October 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just got off the phone with both Colleen and Dave and they are sending a ticket to pick up the camera. Now to write another letter, that I think NO ONE ever reads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Hi Shootist, Take a look here Oh Darn a line. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chris_tribble Posted October 13, 2008 Share #162 Posted October 13, 2008 Just got mine back (had it couriered back to RJ Lewis - much easier to ensure that there's someone there to collect...). Verdict? 1/ no line ( ) 2/ 75 cron asph and 50 lux focus perfectly fully open ( ) 3/ I now have matching framelines for my M8.1 and M8.2 - which makes sense ... 4/ I don't have S mode (hooray! ) 5/ and I don't have ISO adjust via the wheel (really not bothered....) 6/ I really really really prefer Discrete Mode on the 8.2 to standard 8.1 mode shutter... It's quieter, infinitely more M like and should have been there from the outset. So I'm very glad that I got the new camera - even though it was at a cost ... Would I send it back to Solms to have Discrete added as an option? In a heartbeat... Best ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #163 Posted October 13, 2008 Chris glad to hear everything is working out for you through Solms. I am really hoping 3 times a charm with Leica NJ. If not I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I've even thought of selling both M8's while retaining 2 or 3 M lenses and getting another film M and moving on to some other digital camera. More then likely a P&S. I really can't take this incompetence from a camera maker that supposedly is tops in the field of quality cameras and lenses. Not from what I've been experiencing. I just wish I lived closer to NJ. I'd drive over there and hand deliver the camera to Roger Horn. Just got mine back (had it couriered back to RJ Lewis - much easier to ensure that there's someone there to collect...). Verdict? 1/ no line ( ) 2/ 75 cron asph and 50 lux focus perfectly fully open ( ) 3/ I now have matching framelines for my M8.1 and M8.2 - which makes sense ... 4/ I don't have S mode (hooray! ) 5/ and I don't have ISO adjust via the wheel (really not bothered....) 6/ I really really really prefer Discrete Mode on the 8.2 to standard 8.1 mode shutter... It's quieter, infinitely more M like and should have been there from the outset. So I'm very glad that I got the new camera - even though it was at a cost ... Would I send it back to Solms to have Discrete added as an option? In a heartbeat... Best ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 13, 2008 Share #164 Posted October 13, 2008 Why not insist that NJ sends it express to Solms at their expense. If Leica in the US can't do the work Leica HQ has to get on their case big time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted October 13, 2008 Share #165 Posted October 13, 2008 Just got mine back (had it couriered back to RJ Lewis - much easier to ensure that there's someone there to collect...). Verdict? 1/ no line ( ) 2/ 75 cron asph and 50 lux focus perfectly fully open ( ) 3/ I now have matching framelines for my M8.1 and M8.2 - which makes sense ... 4/ I don't have S mode (hooray! ) 5/ and I don't have ISO adjust via the wheel (really not bothered....) 6/ I really really really prefer Discrete Mode on the 8.2 to standard 8.1 mode shutter... It's quieter, infinitely more M like and should have been there from the outset. So I'm very glad that I got the new camera - even though it was at a cost ... Would I send it back to Solms to have Discrete added as an option? In a heartbeat... Best ... Great Chris. Didn't you change the shutter on the M8.1? If you don't use the discreet shutter mode, is the level noise similar to the upgrade M8.1? Or is it better? How long did it take in total between sending to getting it back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 13, 2008 Share #166 Posted October 13, 2008 I have heard today from Sonja, that my M8 has gone to the club hammer and stillson wrench division (technical adjustments) to get its electronic problems looked at prior to upgrade. Apparently they check, as a matter of course, for sensor lines and dead pixels. Hopefully this might mean I get it back before the end of the month. I am beginning to twitch from Leica withdrawal symptoms. I should have brought my IIF back from France with me. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 13, 2008 Share #167 Posted October 13, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Great Chris. Didn't you change the shutter on the M8.1? If you don't use the discreet shutter mode, is the level noise similar to the upgrade M8.1? Or is it better? How long did it take in total between sending to getting it back? Maarten - in "normal" mode the 8.1 and 8.2 are identical in sound - MUCH more muted and with lower vibration than the M8c, as reported by Sean's thigh test ( ). Definitely worth it - but not the same as Discreet... re timing - it's been almost exactly two weeks ... 30.09.2008 Service order registered on 02.10.2008 Quotation sent on 08.10.2008 In repair 10.10.2008 Repair completed 11.10.2008 Shipment in process. 13.10.2008 Camera in London Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #168 Posted October 13, 2008 Why not insist that NJ sends it express to Solms at their expense. If Leica in the US can't do the work Leica HQ has to get on their case big time! Chris I would do that except I have a wedding to do at the end of this month, Actually the first of November, and need the camera back in my hands at least a week before the wedding. Simple fact is NONE of this should of ever happened. My first black M8 should of been repair correctly, if it could of, the first time I sent it in and if it couldn't be then a new camera sent to me that had NO problems. This next trip to NJ of a black M8 I've owned will make it 5 times it has gone back, 3 time for the original (including the trip to NJ for the replacement) and twice for this new one. I don't know if anyone else ever noticed this but it seems that Leica NJ only checks the camera by shooting Jpegs. Everytime I have sent a camera in and got it back everything was reset to Jpeg Only along with the picture numbering being reset to 001. Why on earth does Leica NJ think everyone shoots Jpeg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 13, 2008 Share #169 Posted October 13, 2008 Everytime I have sent a camera in and got it back everything was reset to Jpeg Only along with the picture numbering being reset to 001.Why on earth does Leica NJ think everyone shoots Jpeg. Sorry you've had such a rough ride... re the JPEG re-set you have to remember that the DEFAULT Profile (0) is set for JPEG - all new cameras are like that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perb Posted October 13, 2008 Share #170 Posted October 13, 2008 re timing - it's been almost exactly two weeks ... 30.09.2008 Service order registered on 02.10.2008 Quotation sent on 08.10.2008 In repair 10.10.2008 Repair completed 11.10.2008 Shipment in process. 13.10.2008 Camera in London Best Well, I also sent my M8 to Solms: 2008-09-15 parcel sent 2008-09-18 arrived at Leica 2008-09-26 order confirmation I also received a paper version of the order confirmation a few days later, but I haven't heard a word since, and am still waiting... Guess someone has to take the pain for all those happy posters getting fast service from Solms. Would be interesting to see how they determine priority in practice, and what I did to end up at the back of the queue. Anyway, I've been having fun with my M7, so I took off all the filters on my lenses Regards Per Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #171 Posted October 13, 2008 Sorry you've had such a rough ride... re the JPEG re-set you have to remember that the DEFAULT Profile (0) is set for JPEG - all new cameras are like that... Chris it's not only Profile 0 that gets set or is used. I have all 3 user profiles set to something and only one is set to capture a Jpeg image, in B&W along with a DNG, and whenever I get a camera back ALL User Profiles are set to Jpeg. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 14, 2008 Share #172 Posted October 14, 2008 Date State 06.10.2008 Service order registered on 08.10.2008 Oder confirmation sent 08.10.2008 In repair 10.10.2008 Repair completed 11.10.2008 Shipment in process. got mine back today. no trace of the darn line sofar at any ISO setting. electronic circuit has been changed, which one I don't know. I had my M8 for 5 days only, then shipped it to Solms. I was very, very disappointed by the inconvenience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share #173 Posted October 14, 2008 Piero Have you checked the focusing and RF alignment? This is where Leica NJ falls on it's face, or so it has been my experience. My camera was picked up today to go back to NJ for another go round with the vertical alignment and the center of the captured image being way off from what you are seeing as the center of the image in the viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 14, 2008 Share #174 Posted October 14, 2008 PieroHave you checked the focusing and RF alignment? This is where Leica NJ falls on it's face, or so it has been my experience. My camera was picked up today to go back to NJ for another go round with the vertical alignment and the center of the captured image being way off from what you are seeing as the center of the image in the viewfinder. Ed, here's hoping things finally work out this time around for you. I packed everything up this morning and said my final goodbyes as my M8 begins it's final homeward bound journey to meet it's maker. RIP. Thinking about it now, old .beta and I have had a memorable time over the past 2 years, it's kind of sad to think it'll be consigned to the scrap heap. Looking forward to the replacement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share #175 Posted October 14, 2008 Ed, here's hoping things finally work out this time around for you. I packed everything up this morning and said my final goodbyes as my M8 begins it's final homeward bound journey to meet it's maker. RIP. Thinking about it now, old .beta and I have had a memorable time over the past 2 years, it's kind of sad to think it'll be consigned to the scrap heap. Looking forward to the replacement Eoin I'm a little confused with your post. Did you sell your M8? Are you returning it for a replacement M8? Is to going to Solms with a note "Keep this POS as I have had it with all the bugs". And your line "Looking forward to the replacement". Is that a replacement M8 or M8.2 or are you waiting for a M8.3/.4/M9 Thanks for the good wishes. I also hope they get there STG and fix it properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 15, 2008 Share #176 Posted October 15, 2008 Shootist: the back up M8 I got from distributor had a rangefinder in such a messy shape... Not a weel problem but a behind the red dot problem. Disastrous and very frustrating. On my M8 I have used only the 35 Cron yesterday, for a few shots and I was tired. It seems the rangefinder is OK, I will check carefully with the 75. Back and front focus issues I will also check, but tell me, please, the front focus and back focus are related to lens design only? nothing to do with rangefinder if the RF looks ok? Or is it possible that the get the regulation of the 'behind the red dot' all right and miss the weel? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 15, 2008 Share #177 Posted October 15, 2008 ....Are you returning it for a replacement M8? Is to going to Solms with a note "Keep this POS as I have had it with all the bugs". Ed, I rarely find action or reaction such as that ever bares fruit. I did how ever ask to speak to someone in a higher position to discuss my concerns around a 2nd sensor replacement in 3 months and my fast expiring warranty and where this would leave me with regard to the sensor, the number of times I've had to return and length of time I've been without the camera. You know, just a chat to allay fears and get some sort of warranty on the new sensor. you waiting for a M8.3/.4/M9 Nah, I want to shoot now and enjoy the moments life brings, I could be dead and buried by the time there is another digital M. Is that a replacement M8 or M8.2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share #178 Posted October 15, 2008 Piero I'm not sure whether any back or front focus issues are due to camera rangefinders or lens design and assembly tolerances. All I know is I have 9 lenses for the M series of cameras and all but 2 of them are Leica lenses, 21/28-2/28-2.8/35/50-1.4/50-2/75/90/135. I noticed a real backfocus with my 75 Cron right after I got a M8 and the 75 Cron about a year or so ago. So I sent in the 75 Cron to be looked at and It was returned with a note statinig it was within spec. So I just lived with it. Around that same time I had adjusted the wheel on the camera to align the infinity image with my 50 Cron which I know from many tests on both my M8's and 2 other M8's that it is DEAD NUTS (Right on the money, As good at focusing as any lens it going to be). I never really saw any focusing issues with lenses from 50mm down at any distances or F/stops, even with my 50 Lux ASPH, so I figured I just have to compensate my focusing with the 75 Cron. Somewhere between then and now I checked all my other lenses for infinity focus alignment of the split/double image between the viewfinder and rangefinder patch and noticed that every lens was slightly different. With some they made the RF image go past the VF image and others didn't go far enough except with the 50 Cron which is the lens I used to make the infinity adjustment with. At that point I said OK as long as they focus correctly at the closest focusing distances and at mid range distances I can live with them not aligning the split/double image at infinty. I'm NOT sending all my lenses and both M8's in at the same time for any type of calibration and I'll live with it being out at infinity. About 4+ months ago I got a 90mm Elmarit to repplace a 90 Tele-Elmarit I was using becasue I just wasn't satisfied with the images I was getting from the Tele-Elmarit. I noticed this same slight backfocus with the 90 Elmarit, this 90 is the lastest version and although not a new lens as far as I can tell this lens had never been used and it actually looks like it had never been out of the original box except to take pictures of it for the listing on eBay, it was pristine. So I said now I have 2 lenses I have to compensate the focusing on, the 75 and this new to me 90. I then figured why not try adjusting the wheel to bring them, the 75 & 90, back into correct focus at close and mid focusing distances and see what that does to all my other lenses. So I set up a tripod and adjusted the wheel so both the 75 and 90 had just the slightest hint of back focus at the closest focusing distance and then started checking all my other lenses. Well I found that with all my other lenses focusing was not really moved and now I can just align the split/double image and be good to go with all my lenses, no compensation needed. This worked on both my chrome M8 and the original black M8, even though the vertical alignment was off on the black M8, and on the NEW replacement black M8. I was a happy camper. Then I notice the sensor line in the NEW replacement M8. After getting the NEW replacement M8 back from servicing for the line problem I notice it again had the backfocusing problem with the 75 and 90 but this time when making the wheel adjustment for the backfocusing it didn't work the same way. When I got these 2 lenses to focus correctly at the close, or near closest, focusing distance focusing on something 15-20 feet away revealed I had a large front focusing problem. Tweaking the wheel back to correct this made close focusing way out. It was then I notice that what I placed in the center of the RF patch and centered in the framelines for the lens I was using was not in the center of the image captured and that the vertical alignment was off. This told me something is really screwy with the rangefinder on this NEW camera that I had for a total of 5 days before it went back for sensor replacement and then back in my hands for another 4 days before it again is going back to Leica NJ. Let me add that the vertical alignment of the rangefinder on the NEW replacement camera was PERFECT when I took it out of the box for the first time. Shootist:the back up M8 I got from distributor had a rangefinder in such a messy shape... Not a weel problem but a behind the red dot problem. Disastrous and very frustrating. On my M8 I have used only the 35 Cron yesterday, for a few shots and I was tired. It seems the rangefinder is OK, I will check carefully with the 75. Back and front focus issues I will also check, but tell me, please, the front focus and back focus are related to lens design only? nothing to do with rangefinder if the RF looks ok? Or is it possible that the get the regulation of the 'behind the red dot' all right and miss the weel? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share #179 Posted October 15, 2008 Ed, I rarely find action or reaction such as that ever bares fruit. I did how ever ask to speak to someone in a higher position to discuss my concerns around a 2nd sensor replacement in 3 months and my fast expiring warranty and where this would leave me with regard to the sensor, the number of times I've had to return and length of time I've been without the camera. You know, just a chat to allay fears and get some sort of warranty on the new sensor. Nah, I want to shoot now and enjoy the moments life brings, I could be dead and buried by the time there is another digital M. Eoin I hope you like your new M8.2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted October 15, 2008 Share #180 Posted October 15, 2008 Shootist: thanks for the explanation. The back-up M8 I was given for the duration of the fixing of my M8 had a very bad vertical misalignment, as I said. The horizontal I could manage to fix via the small Allen wrench but what seemed to be right for the 35 Cron did not work for the 75 Cron at infinity. Viceversa calibrating first the 75 worked on the 35. A trial and error method, although interesting, is very time consuming and i the end leaves you with a bothering doubt. Leica certainly has a non empirical formula but the problem, as usual , is the human factor. Talking about motorcycles maintenance, I checked for valve clearance of my BMW K1100RS and found out that on previous service not done by me the one of the two sprockets where the timing chain rides, on one of the cam shafts, was not tight to the correct torque. Torque wrenches need to be calibrated regularly if you want to have consistent torques. Mine are calibrated, BMW service garage aren't and very often they are not used by 'experienced mechanics'. Besides good training of the people working the tools also must be kept in pristine working conditions. I stopped servicing my bike at BMW service garage a couple of years ago, but getting all the tools I need to do whatever service my bike needs was costly. Frustration is gone though. Which is a priceless satisfaction. read between the lines... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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