mboerma Posted October 6, 2008 Share #121 Posted October 6, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just checked some pics taken at ISO 2500 that I made recently. I see a line on one of them but certainly not all. At lower ISO's all seems clear. Should I get worried or assume it was something incidental? I still have 1yr warranty left so I am not in rush to find en excuse to get the sensor replaced with a FF M9 just around the door (flame suit on). Stephen, That's the same thing I was wondering about. I just sent a email to the customer service of Leica and see what they say. Maarten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Hi mboerma, Take a look here Oh Darn a line. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
SJP Posted October 6, 2008 Share #122 Posted October 6, 2008 When there is no line apparent on the bottom of the image look very carefully on the top for a black line. Thanks I checked - it does seem to have been a one off (touch wood). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted October 6, 2008 Share #123 Posted October 6, 2008 I've just had a mail from Andrea to say it's being passed on to the relevant person. Blood pressure starting to ease, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted October 6, 2008 Share #124 Posted October 6, 2008 I wouldn't be so sure about that, read my post, I've already had the Sensor replaced last June and the problem is back in August. Further more I've sent a 3rd email this morning since my last 2 weren't even acknowledged and lo and behold I get an auto reply from M8.support@leica-camera.com to say I'm out of the office till 12th October. These guys are really starting to rub me up the wrong way. Well, I can tell you they're very busy since photokina with the Upgrade Program; last Friday 3 October was "Tag der Deutschen Einheit" (Unity Day, the National Day in Germany) and Ursula Brand-Gerheim is out of the office till tomorrow. "I've already had the Sensor replaced last June and the problem is back in August." Sorry to hear that. My Summicron-M 28 has travelled a few times to Solms until, at the end, they got it right. One of my M8 (which has been replaced) have spend also months there... and before it was replaced by a new one, they returned it to me in the same conditions I had sent it... because they forgot about it. My Digilux 2 when it got dust on the LCD, I got it back with the flash broken... and after they replaced the CDD sensor, it arrived with the lens broken (didn't focus properly) and I had to send it again... So, I know how CS can be... The only good thing now, when I have a problem now they're very helpful... "Courage" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share #125 Posted October 6, 2008 Sorry to hear that. My Summicron-M 28 has travelled a few times to Solms until, at the end, they got it right. One of my M8 (which has been replaced) have spend also months there... and before it was replaced by a new one, they returned it to me in the same conditions I had sent it... because they forgot about it. My Digilux 2 when it got dust on the LCD, I got it back with the flash broken... and after they replaced the CDD sensor, it arrived with the lens broken (didn't focus properly) and I had to send it again... So, I know how CS can be... The only good thing now, when I have a problem now they're very helpful... "Courage" . So Solms isn't any better then NJ. The camera I got that started this thread was a Replacement for one that they could NOT adjust the vertical alignment on. I had sent it in twice and the last time it was there they did absolutely nothing to it. I could tell because after the first trip with the problem still there when it came back I tool it to a local M repair person that while I waited and watch he adjusted the RF so at the closest focusing point the vertical alignment lined up but then at any distance farther then close focusing it was off in the other direction. So he put it back where it was and used a piece of double sided tape to stick the red dot back on. When I got it back from NJ after the second trip with the problem still there I took it back to him and when he pulled off the red dot the same piece of double sided tape he used was still on the red dot. That is when I called the president and got a replacement but with a flaw. I just love using a M8 but it has been trying. IMHO the replacement I got should of been replaced again and not sent in for service. I should of had the, A, camera back last week that had NO flaws of any kind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el fotografo Posted October 7, 2008 Share #126 Posted October 7, 2008 I have the line problem in the center of the sensor at 2500 iso with the previous and current 2.0 firmware. This is a jpeg crop of a test image taken after loading 2.0. I spoke to Leica NJ last week about this and asked about having upgrades done at the same time. They said that I would have wait and send it in for my upgrade date in late November and they would do the repair then. I asked if I could send it in sooner for repair and not have to wait for my upgrade date since it is a warranty issue and was told no. My warranty expires in December so I'll check in with them again. I never used 2500 iso before the 2.0 upgrade however I'm inclined to take the chance and sort this out as well. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/63273-oh-darn-a-line/?do=findComment&comment=677577'>More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 7, 2008 Share #127 Posted October 7, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I never used 2500 iso before the 2.0 upgrade however I'm inclined to take the chance and sort this out as well. Much better to get sorted out now... this is not something you would want to have with images that you were delivering to a client - and remember, though we spot it in high ISO shots, it's there in ALL shots taken with the faulty sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted October 7, 2008 Share #128 Posted October 7, 2008 They diagnosed my lines as "a line of missing pixels". I just understood from Leica CS that they will reprogram the sensor using special software. Does anyone know what this might entail? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted October 7, 2008 Share #129 Posted October 7, 2008 They diagnosed my lines as "a line of missing pixels". I just understood from Leica CS that they will reprogram the sensor using special software. Does anyone know what this might entail? It sounds like a bodge up to me, it does not resolve the underlying problem. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted October 7, 2008 Share #130 Posted October 7, 2008 It sounds like a bodge up to me, it does not resolve the underlying problem. Jeff I'm not sure what "bodge up" means exactly, but it feels like polish up/disguise something like that. I had the same idea when I read this. I explicitly asked what she meant with reprogram, if she didn't mean replace. But they somehow use software to program it so its no longer a problem. I'll ask for more details because it does not feel comfortable. Maarten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share #131 Posted October 7, 2008 They diagnosed my lines as "a line of missing pixels". I just understood from Leica CS that they will reprogram the sensor using special software. Does anyone know what this might entail? Yes they are going to use special software to hide that line of pixels making your sensor smaller. Taking your M8 from a 10.3MP camera to a 10.2999MP camera. Just got word yeaterday that my camera is on it's way back to me. Originally they stated that the sensor need to be changed and that they couldn't get to it until Tuesday, today, of this week. So now my paranoia is setting in think they may of just masked out the bad pixels with this special software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted October 7, 2008 Share #132 Posted October 7, 2008 I just sent a question to customer support about the programming thing and that I don't feel comfortable with it. Maybe they can explain a little better what is happening. Maybe they shift/compress the image by one line? In my case removing two lines of pixels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 7, 2008 Share #133 Posted October 7, 2008 Sounds wrong - they've stated that my sensor is being replaced - same symptoms as yours is showing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share #134 Posted October 7, 2008 Sounds wrong - they've stated that my sensor is being replaced - same symptoms as yours is showing... That's what they told me also but it seems very odd that last week they said I wouldn't have the camera back until the 27th of October then when I raised a stink they said they'd work on it this week, Tuesday, and have it back to me by the end of the week and now they said it's on it's way back. Unless changing the sensor is a routine job these days I have a suspicion they masked out the line of dead pixels. Of course I am prone to being slightly paranoid. We'll have to wait and see what the work order states. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted October 7, 2008 Share #135 Posted October 7, 2008 Sounds wrong - they've stated that my sensor is being replaced - same symptoms as yours is showing... I'm not sure what you say is wrong. The fact that the don't replace the sensor but reprogram it or is it because you think there is no thing like reprogramming? Quote from my email: =============================== Thank you for your mail. I also received the first mail. I´m very sorry to have to tell you that this is a line of missing pixels. So please send us the camera so we can reprogram the sensor. There are different ways to send us the camera: 1. you can send it through your local foto dealer 2. we can have our courier come and pick it up at your home 3. you can send it yourself directly to our service here in Solms if you like to use the pick up service through our courier, please let us know when the camera can be picked up. The pick up can take place three days after we receive your answer. Please excuse the inconvenience this mailfunction is causing you. Mit freundlichen Gruessen / kind regards =============================== end quote After my question about replacing or programming: quote ===================== Yes, option 2 is fine with us. No, there will be no shiping costs for you as the camera is still under warranty. No, the sensor does not need to be replaced, it can be programed with a special software. Once the camera is here we can of course also do a upgrade. As for the costs for the upgrade, please see the list on our homepage: Leica Camera AG - Service - m8upgrade Bitte sehr !!! ================== Maarten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex7075 Posted October 7, 2008 Share #136 Posted October 7, 2008 It would be nice if everybody could use the software to take care of stuck pixels and/or stuck lines. I think other brands offer this possibility. I mean, if Leica made the software available to customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share #137 Posted October 7, 2008 Well what is wrong is I paid for a complete camera. Not one that had to be programed by special software top mask out something that is wrong with the sensor. It has been my experience that once something starts to go wrong with electronic components other things also start to go or that electronic component continues to fail. If that's fine with you OK but it wouldn't be fine with me. Keep detailed records of what is going on so at least if the sensor start to fail, gets more dead pixels, again after the warranty has run out you can show that the problem originated before the end of the warranty and that it should be fixed, COMPLETELY "IE" new sensor, at no charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share #138 Posted October 7, 2008 It would be nice if everybody could use the software to take care of stuck pixels and/or stuck lines. I think other brands offer this possibility.I mean, if Leica made the software available to customers. No I think at one time Canon did this but they don't anymore and to my knowledge no other manufacturer does this either. They do have in-house software to do it but they don't post it for public use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboerma Posted October 7, 2008 Share #139 Posted October 7, 2008 It would be nice if everybody could use the software to take care of stuck pixels and/or stuck lines. I think other brands offer this possibility.I mean, if Leica made the software available to customers. Which camera brands for example? I can find software to remove dead/stuck pixels from JPEGS, but that is not the same. I agree with Shootist that you should get what you paid for, not a quick and dirty fix. But I'm still waiting for a response from Leica CS to see what they do when reprogramming the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex7075 Posted October 7, 2008 Share #140 Posted October 7, 2008 Let me try to remember. In November 2007 I found a couple of dead pixels and the vertical line. At that time I searched the internet and found that there's a software to reprogram the sensor of some cameras, but Leica wasn't included. If I'm not wrong, it was some kind of independent software that worked with different brands and models of cameras. So, I sent the camera to Solms and one week later I had it back with the sensor replaced. Last week I found a new stuck pixel, but it doesn't generate a vertical line. Maybe I will send the camera back if it get worse. As for the replacement / reprogram alternative, I have no idea: perhaps different problems (pixel or line) ask for different solutions. I guess reprogramming a single pixel on ten millions is no big deal, as far as it guarantees that the problem won't be back. But who can be sure of that for digital stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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