Oh Darn a line

[ArtZ]

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There seems to be a growing body of evidence that there have been improvements in the sensor itself between different generations of the M8.1. I don't know enough about these matters - but may Mark Norton or some of the others on this forum with technical knowledge can comment? It certainly makes sense if Leica / Kodak have identified a fault, they'll have modified something in the sensor chip to eradicate?

 

Anyone else have thoughts on this? Most important for owners will be to track back to when the change came in. My body with the faulty sensor was an April 2007 purchase, but it could have been made any time before that... My current and OK body was bought in April 2008. This displays no problems...

 

 

Leica upgraded the sensor board on September 2007. For a short time, cameras left Solms with firmware v1.108 which was not available on download. This firmware was identical to v1.107 but included new drivers for the new sensor board. Everybody got an email on this.

 

Something similar happened with firmware v1.094 in May 07. This firmware was not available in download. Cameras with SN 33xxxxx (I have one of them) left Solms with firmware 1.094. I suspect that something similar happened here. I believe that firmware v1.094 had drivers for a new board (T2 upgrade)

[chris_tribble]

Thanks - is the overall import that people who bought cameras before September 2007 should be checking their high and low ISO peformance and making sure that the line's not there?

[piero]

no other choice but repeat my erlier thought:

they should have called back all unsold M8 and fix them for good.

 

the harshness reminds of DCLS Pro backs I was using in 2004. A disater in dark areas and too harsh on the rest of the tones. I started using the 1Ds instead and was much better. The only back I like so far compared to the 1Ds MKIII is the Aptus 75s.

I am curious to see the S2 but given the circumstances... they better test it very well.

[mboerma]

I've found two lines also. Running vertically just a little left and right from the middle of the sensor. The seem to start from a dead of stuck pixel. Depending on the surrounding color of lightness its more or less visible. I found it by taking pictures at ISO 2500 and 1/8000s. Then work my way to a well exposed image. I don't see them in every photo.

 

What to do? Send it in right now or wait? As I read through this thread it seems that it might worsen over time.

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[chrism]

Now I have found two stuck pixels on the left side of my images, whilst the line is on the right. Curiously, I examined some DNG's from before the FW2.0 upgrade, including some at ISO 2500, and they do not have either the line or the stuck pixels. Perhaps it is only coincidence, but it does seem to be falling apart all of a sudden!

 

Chris

[Shootist]

Thanks - is the overall import that people who bought cameras before September 2007 should be checking their high and low ISO peformance and making sure that the line's not there?

I got my replacement for the original M8 I had in June 2007 and I bought the black one in June also. Neither of them had the line. I still have the chrome and the one I started this thread about is a replacement black with a serial number later then the one I bought in June 2007.

So no I don't think it has anything to do with time/date of production.

[Shootist]

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I've found two lines also. Running vertically just a little left and right from the middle of the sensor. The seem to start from a dead of stuck pixel. Depending on the surrounding color of lightness its more or less visible. I found it by taking pictures at ISO 2500 and 1/8000s. Then work my way to a well exposed image. I don't see them in every photo.

 

What to do? Send it in right now or wait? As I read through this thread it seems that it might worsen over time.

 

First look at the top of the images you don't see the red/blue line in. I bet you find a black, or some other color, line in those images starting just above center and running to the top. It's harder to see but I bet it is there.

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The only thing you can do is send it in to be fixed.

[mboerma]

Are these things related? Green ghosts, hot/dead pixels and lines? (Although I took the pictures in Japan, I'm sure that has nothing to do with it ) No need to comment on the quality of the photos, just experimenting. 35 Summicron with Leica IR cut filter.

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[Eoin]

No they are internal reflections caused by bright light sources and the UV/IR filter.

For shooting subjects like these you should remove the filter. I know not ideal but nothing else you can do.

[mboerma]

No they are internal reflections caused by bright light sources and the UV/IR filter.

For shooting subjects like these you should remove the filter. I know not ideal but nothing else you can do.

 

Okay. Thanks. Didn't know that.

[chris_tribble]

First look at the top of the images you don't see the red/blue line in. I bet you find a black, or some other color, line in those images starting just above center and running to the top. It's harder to see but I bet it is there.

[ATTACH]106263[/ATTACH]

 

The only thing you can do is send it in to be fixed.

 

Have to agree...

[ArtZ]

I got my replacement for the original M8 I had in June 2007 and I bought the black one in June also. Neither of them had the line. I still have the chrome and the one I started this thread about is a replacement black with a serial number later then the one I bought in June 2007.

So no I don't think it has anything to do with time/date of production.

 

M8 SN# aren't consequtives numbers. Cameras with SN 33XXXXX were built on Spring 2007 (April/May). I have one of them and, for the moment, I don't have a darn line. Cameras with SN 32XXXXX are the latest production (after September 2007). I have also one of them which is a remplacement for a 319XXXX bought in September 2007 before the price rise. Cameras with SN 35XXXXX are M8.2

 

I don't know if the replacement of the sensor board on cameras with SN 32XXXXX will stop the darn line. As I said before none of my cameras have it but I believe Leica has corrected problems in later productions, so if they chaged the sensor board must be a reason.

 

ArtZ

[chris_tribble]

t I believe Leica has corrected problems in later productions, so if they chaged the sensor board must be a reason.

ArtZ

Art - thanks. Confused though as Leica say they're replacing the CCD on mine.. Will it be the case that it's necessary to replace both sensor and sensor board as they're hard wired components and it's not economical to separate the sensor from the board?

[mboerma]

My Leica has serial 311xxxx. Bought in May 2007 as a new camera.

 

The darn lines on my camera seem to originated from hot/stuck pixels. It seems logical that that calls for a CCD replacement. So I'm not sure if the darn line is caused by the same thing for everyone.

[ArtZ]

Art - thanks. Confused though as Leica say they're replacing the CCD on mine.. Will it be the case that it's necessary to replace both sensor and sensor board as they're hard wired components and it's not economical to separate the sensor from the board?

 

 

Chris, I believe once Leica has repaired your M8, you won't see this problem any more.

 

I also believe Leica is aware of this problem but as it doesn't occurs with every body, they prefer to treat it "cas par cas" to avoid panic, bad publicity and LOTS of money.

 

Finally, I have decided to send my both M8s to Solms (they have arrived this morning) for upgrading sapphire glass and frame lines (I'm not insterested in the shutter upgrade). At the same time, they will replace the vulcanite on both bodies which it got damaged with the Leica leather half case (14869) and, on the oldest one, Leica will inspect the wheel (stiffness counter-clockwise), replace the top plate and engrave my signature on it.

 

They have told me they will inspect and check the whole camera. I think this "Upgrade Program" will help Leica to replace parts and correct problems in a "discrete" way. I think also this is the reason of the exorbitant prices of the "Upgrade Program"

 

ArtZ

[Eoin]

Chris, I believe once Leica has repaired your M8, you won't see this problem any more........ArtZ

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that, read my post, I've already had the Sensor replaced last June and the problem is back in August.

 

Further more I've sent a 3rd email this morning since my last 2 weren't even acknowledged and lo and behold I get an auto reply from M8.support@leica-camera.com to say I'm out of the office till 12th October.

 

These guys are really starting to rub me up the wrong way.

[Shootist]

I wouldn't be so sure about that, read my post, I've already had the Sensor replaced last June and the problem is back in August.

 

Further more I've sent a 3rd email this morning since my last 2 weren't even acknowledged and lo and behold I get an auto reply from M8.support@leica-camera.com to say I'm out of the office till 12th October.

 

These guys are really starting to rub me up the wrong way.

Although M8 Support might be out of the office until the 12th I doubt that the service department is out of office. So I'd CALL Solms and see what is going on.

 

Also I don't think M8 Support is the people you want to be dealing with. It's the service department you want

[chris_tribble]

Eoin - you're sending to the wrong mail box. Contact Andrea.Frankl [@] leica-camera.com and copy to customer.service [@] leica-camera.com and Eberhard.Jakob [@] leica-camera.com. That should get things rolling - but, as I said earlier - PHONING them also helps - they're real people doing a real job - and they're friendly and helpful in my experience.

[SJP]

I just checked some pics taken at ISO 2500 that I made recently. I see a line on one of them but certainly not all. At lower ISO's all seems clear.

 

Should I get worried or assume it was something incidental? I still have 1yr warranty left so I am not in rush to find en excuse to get the sensor replaced with a FF M9 just around the door (flame suit on).

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[Shootist]

I just checked some pics taken at ISO 2500 that I made recently. I see a line on one of them but certainly not all. At lower ISO's all seems clear.

 

Should I get worried or assume it was something incidental? I still have 1yr warranty left so I am not in rush to find en excuse to get the sensor replaced with a FF M9 just around the door (flame suit on).

It all depend on the subject matter whether the line appears on the bottom or the top.

When there is no line apparent on the bottom of the image look very carefully on the top for a black line.

See my first post that contains images for the line on the bottom and then on one of my later post, probably on this page of this thread, for the line on the top.