imported_reinierv Posted July 8, 2008 Share #81 Posted July 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) although some issues may have been resolved (like white balance) there are still many annoyances in the camera imo. I love it, don't get me wrong, but if I really had spent money on the camera (I traded it against old stuff that had become unused ) I would be very disappointed because of all the flaws that are in there. The mentioned very slow response and writing The very Noisy sensor above 640 The mentioned easy switch to the self timer The extremely low quality of Leica support Even with the new FW the white balance is odd (still need to process 40% of all files) Corrupted DNG files every now and then (unexpected end of file on the PC) Regular hangings (remove battery to resolve) No SD-HC support Any 200euro compact does this better and Leica has proven with panasonic they can do better. So why the ^%#$ can't they get the 4keuro M8 right I do hope Leica comes with something spectacular next photokina, the M8 tech is over 2 years old now. A FF low noise update would be great... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Hi imported_reinierv, Take a look here Leica M8 bashed by Michael Kamber. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_x2004 Posted July 8, 2008 Share #82 Posted July 8, 2008 I couldnt be bothered reading five pages of responses, but I wonder if anyone mentioned whether the thing leaks like a sieve in the wet, doesnt take knocks and is probably put together with the sophistication of a washing machine? From what I saw he never M8 bashed it he jsut explained where it didnt work for him and didnt cut the mustard on files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 8, 2008 Share #83 Posted July 8, 2008 Would you take a road bike on a single track in the mountains? Yes. It handles kerb jumping at sixty to eighty clicks so why not, excpet watch the front wheel when comes up over a jump it keeps coming up a long long way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogopix Posted July 8, 2008 Share #84 Posted July 8, 2008 I have been in europe while all these posts have been flying. Michael states a case in real world context. He is someone to admire for what he risks to provide us with front line information. Hats off. However, he raises no new issues, except to say the M8 isn't battled hardened. fine However, he presents two images; one M8 one canon. He doesn;t say he prefers the canon, he says it is better. Go look at it. I will bet not ONE real Leica IQ appreciator would select the oversaturated, detailess, lifeless canon image over the suble, detailed and dimensional M8 image. But, well, the M8 is not likely better, just different. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted July 8, 2008 Share #85 Posted July 8, 2008 Go look at it. I will bet not ONE real Leica IQ appreciator would select the oversaturated, detailess, lifeless canon image over the suble, detailed and dimensional M8 image. I guess we are allowed to say a little about Michael's photos. Honestly I think they are a bit flat and not very emotional in terms how he shows peoples faces and expressions. This of course has nothing to do with the camera as I've seen satisfying shots showing these qualities from the 1D. It just shows that one will not always get his/hers dreams fulfilled by following another ones(in this case experienced) opinion. Here's a good example of what I would call "focussed": MySpace.com - JAN GRARUP - 39 - Männlich - Copehagen, Hovedstaden - www.myspace.com/jangrarup Best Regards Henrik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 8, 2008 Share #86 Posted July 8, 2008 You cant ignore page four or whatever it is with two beaten up M6 and one still pristine M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted July 8, 2008 Share #87 Posted July 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) You cant ignore page four or whatever it is with two beaten up M6 and one still pristine M8. I don't know... the photos are all bad. Sorry, was I on the wrong page? I think that Kamber is on to something, but I can't tell if it's that the M8 is bad or if it's that modern photographers has a bad technique? /Henrik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 8, 2008 Share #88 Posted July 8, 2008 I actually can't believe that this thread has got a second life... but in any case, whatever the faults or otherwise of the camera, I personally feel it's below the standards of this forum to stoop to calling his images 'all bad' in defense of the M8. The statement is ridiculous, and the fact that the photographer has been nominated for several pulitzer prizes makes the response even less credible. Incidentally, I prefer the Canon image referred to above. I don't think that photographic merit lies in 'detail'-rendition. Calling the Canon image 'lifeless' is naturally subjective, and is typical of the level of debate that's surrounded this review. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted July 8, 2008 Share #89 Posted July 8, 2008 I actually can't believe that this thread has got a second life... but in any case, whatever the faults or otherwise of the camera, I personally feel it's below the standards of this forum to stoop to calling his images 'all bad' in defense of the M8. The statement is ridiculous, and the fact that the photographer has been nominated for several pulitzer prizes makes the response even less credible. My comments can be taken with a grain of salt if you will. I just like to have some fun sometimes, and if the comments that comes back is only about price winnings then I know that I'm not all that wrong, what do you think? I would of course be interested in hearing good things about the photos too, as I'm not interested in shooting myself in the foot unless it's with a camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 8, 2008 Share #90 Posted July 8, 2008 My comments can be taken with a grain of salt if you will.I just like to have some fun sometimes, and if the comments that comes back is only about price winnings then I know that I'm not all that wrong, what do you think? I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. I looked at Michael Kamber's website and was truly shaken and moved by his images - very many of them taken under circumstances of extreme personal danger. I honestly find it distasteful when people somehow poke fun at him and his work, to defend a digital camera. Pathetic really, in my humble opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted July 8, 2008 Share #91 Posted July 8, 2008 I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. I looked at Michael Kamber's website and was truly shaken and moved by his images - very many of them taken under circumstances of extreme personal danger. I honestly find it distasteful when people somehow poke fun at him and his work, to defend a digital camera. Pathetic really, in my humble opinion. I have great respect for Kamber, even though I don't have the experience on my own. By having great respect for him and that he has made this small review, I think that he deserves an honest discussion, don't you? And yes, his prices impresses me very much, but should it be the prices or the photos that makes the photos great? Maybe it would be nice too for you to respect my comments even though I'm not an experienced pro and don't have any prices? Regards Henrik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted July 8, 2008 Share #92 Posted July 8, 2008 I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. I looked at Michael Kamber's website and was truly shaken and moved by his images Absolutely right. An international furore over an article by a guy who was disappointed by what he bought. Wasn't even on this Forum, but well entertaining. After all, all he was hoping for is what we'd all like the product to be. T'was quite amusing reading posts condeming him written by people who have never taken their M out in the rain. Clean his shoes? ..... pass me the brush. Rolo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 8, 2008 Share #93 Posted July 8, 2008 I couldnt be bothered reading five pages of responses, but I wonder if anyone mentioned whether the thing leaks like a sieve in the wet, doesnt take knocks and is probably put together with the sophistication of a washing machine? Does it ? I remember no reports of moisture failure but one where the LCD temporarily didn't function and I am sure a fair number of M8's get caught out in rainstorms from time to time, as for knocks, I cannot remember any posts about M8's being put out of commission by "normal" knocks like dropping from tables on concrete floors etc. Falling down cliffs or out of windows - yes, then it may break, but some other cameras would be a heap of nuts and bolts then.. As for a washing machines, we have quite an expensive Miele which certainly would not survive knocks and does leak like a sieve from time to time..... Anyway, Iraq does not seem the place for testing watertightness.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 8, 2008 Share #94 Posted July 8, 2008 I have great respect for Kamber, even though I don't have the experience on my own.By having great respect for him and that he has made this small review, I think that he deserves an honest discussion, don't you? And yes, his prices impresses me very much, but should it be the prices or the photos that makes the photos great? Maybe it would be nice too for you to respect my comments even though I'm not an experienced pro and don't have any prices? I'm afraid I think there must be some linguistic misunderstanding between us here(?) Personally, I found this thread rather destructive and distressing the first time around, and I don't know whether it's wise for me to participate again. But just to clarify, Michael Kamber has been the subject of many personal attacks since the review was published, and his work has been snidely denigrated in various quarters. My impression was that the review was a valid assessment of the camera, and I found it personally useful as I've been wavering about this purchase continually for the last couple years. In the end, the M8 is just a camera, and I find the often vitriolic abuse heaped on its detractors to be both surprising and distasteful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammitsboel Posted July 8, 2008 Share #95 Posted July 8, 2008 plasticman, I think you are right that there might be a misunderstanding here. My English is not the greatest either and I've gotten angry replies because of it too. But I stand by my words that it's valid to have a look at a guys work and gather it with his statements to form an opinion of your own. When I first read his review, I got a bad reaction and didn't feel like shooting with my gear, I reconsidered my cameras and was considering buying a 5D instead. This went on for a few days and I ended up downloading some 5D and 1D raw files to give them a try. I then looked at them and they made me think what the hell I was doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridder Cornelius Posted July 8, 2008 Share #96 Posted July 8, 2008 I frankly have no idea what you're talking about. I looked at Michael Kamber's website and was truly shaken and moved by his images - very many of them taken under circumstances of extreme personal danger. I honestly find it distasteful when people somehow poke fun at him and his work, to defend a digital camera. Pathetic really, in my humble opinion. Must agree with this ..... because this is the tendence in the posts concerning this review. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roofus Posted July 9, 2008 Share #97 Posted July 9, 2008 I'm afraid I think there must be some linguistic misunderstanding between us here(?) Personally, I found this thread rather destructive and distressing the first time around, and I don't know whether it's wise for me to participate again. But just to clarify, Michael Kamber has been the subject of many personal attacks since the review was published, and his work has been snidely denigrated in various quarters. My impression was that the review was a valid assessment of the camera, and I found it personally useful as I've been wavering about this purchase continually for the last couple years. In the end, the M8 is just a camera, and I find the often vitriolic abuse heaped on its detractors to be both surprising and distasteful. Agreed!!! No matter how much we want to like the M8 . . . it is a flawed device . . . . and Kamber is a distinguished and experienced photographer . . . . now let us move on . . . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted July 9, 2008 Share #98 Posted July 9, 2008 this place has been sectioned for some time, saw similar thing happen back at the station in '86 before the great ward purge,,,,,,,,,,,,, beware of the Fed-Ex Transatlantic Riders................. ward 017 remains intact Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 9, 2008 Share #99 Posted July 9, 2008 Does it ? I remember no reports of moisture failure but one where the LCD temporarily didn't function and I am sure a fair number of M8's get caught out in rainstorms from time to time, as for knocks, I cannot remember any posts about M8's being put out of commission by "normal" knocks like dropping from tables on concrete floors etc. Falling down cliffs or out of windows - yes, then it may break, but some other cameras would be a heap of nuts and bolts then.. As for a washing machines, we have quite an expensive Miele which certainly would not survive knocks and does leak like a sieve from time to time.....Anyway, Iraq does not seem the place for testing watertightness.. Stop being so defensive:D. Few m8 owners give their cameras a hard time and those that do have something else. Erls went back for a short drop, so have a few others in here that I read eons ago. And how many failure returns is acceptable in your line of work Jaap? Its a soft camera, if you can work around that then it is probably great. But explain to me why it isnt a must have for every journo photographer when it should be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted July 9, 2008 Share #100 Posted July 9, 2008 Stop being so defensive:D. Few m8 owners give their cameras a hard time and those that do have something else. Erls went back for a short drop, so have a few others in here that I read eons ago. And how many failure returns is acceptable in your line of work Jaap? Its a soft camera, if you can work around that then it is probably great. But explain to me why it isnt a must have for every journo photographer when it should be? With respect Rob, I think I have to disagree to some extent. I don't have stats on how many M8 user's (or other brands) give their camera a hard time. Do you? I did give mine an (expensive) drop(RF misaligned) that was fixed perfectly, but my Nikon had a lesser drop and the body split open AND ruined the film. I think too many generalisations are pushed around here sometimes. It's not a "must have" for every journo for many reasons. 1. It's not perfect, so what is? Actually, on that basis, journos should probaly resort to sketching. 2. It takes a certain mental attitude to be able to use successfully, so that rules a lot of journos out. 3. It is inclined to be temperamental at times so not ideal for all scenarios, rather like any thorougbred. 4. The cost is a great inhibiter to many journos because their boss (in many instances) pays for camera gear and top dollar in someone elses hands is too risky. 5. It seems journalism often descends into "machine gunning" (I know not always) and the M8 is a "snipers" tool, in which case it is admirable suitable to journalism. I could go on, but to what point? To stay on topic - M.K. & the M8 in a war zone was clearly a mistake, as M.K. admitted. The mistake was his. The M8's shortcoming's are heavily documented and we are all aware of them. I use the M8, almost exclusively, only because what I do allows for it's foibles. When the shortcomings are an issue, I don't use it. Only a fool would do otherwise. M.K.'s "bashing" of the M8 was partial in that he ommitted to acknowedge it's virtues as well as its faults. If writing a crit on the camera and not just a whinge on 'how it let him down', then I believe he should have included it's virtues alonside the faults. Let it be clear, I am not defending the M8, although I could, but I am criticising the critic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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