mgcd Posted March 12, 2008 Share #21  Posted March 12, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's why you have partners! That's why there are BMW engines in Bentley automobiles. That's why VW and Porsche collaborate! That's why you have Panasonic. "Purists" may malign these types of cooperation, but if you want Leica to continue to exist, then get off your cross. The R system as it exists does not have the user base to be viable, PERIOD. It has to change, just as Ducati and Bentley/Rolls and Land Rover and Jaguar and AC and Apple (etc) had to change.  If you want to say that Leicas cannot be Panasonics, and Panasonics cannot be Leicas and we have to use our old lenses and the R can never go auto focus then you might as well pack it in and sell all your old stuff now, because if there is no change then there is decay and death. You want a new Leica SLR? Better be flexible and forgiving in your opinions and statements.  Well, I don't need a new SLR, and with a large investment in Leica equipment that I would like to preserve, I feel pretty much entitled to express my future needs to Leica as such. I don't want or need a medium priced SLR, otherwise there are plenty of excellent offerings from Nikon and Canon already on the market.  While I don't need a new R body per se, if Leica makes what I need, i.e. something like a R8/DMR but in the size of the R8 + winder and normal back, I would be delighted. Whether it has AF or not is of no concern to me, as long as it does NOT change any of the viewfinder specs unless it's to make those even better. The fact that it, without doubt, would be fully compatible with ALL existing R lenses without adapter is essential.  To be clear, if Leica were to come out with a new DSLR that's incompatible with the existing R system and lenses, I'm not sure I would buy into the new system at all. Frankly, if Leica becomes like all the others, then I might as well get onto the D3 (the real one) bandwagon and move on...  Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 Hi mgcd, Take a look here Meeting Lecia distributors. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pascal_meheut Posted March 12, 2008 Share #22  Posted March 12, 2008 Pascal, if you and 3500 people all promised to buy a camera, today, in writing and put down a deposit... Let's see, say five thousand dollars a camera and lens, 3500 people... Seventeen million dollars. That wouldn't pay for tooling, ads and factory space. That's NOTHING.  Thanks for Marketing 101. Unfortunately, you are not the only one here trying to teach all of us MAD guys something you clearly do not understand. No problem, that's what the Ignore List is for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craftsman Posted March 13, 2008 Share #23 Â Posted March 13, 2008 Thanks for Marketing 101. Unfortunately, you are not the only one here trying to teach all of us MAD guys something you clearly do not understand.No problem, that's what the Ignore List is for. Â What is it that he doesn't understand? Seems to me he nailed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 13, 2008 Share #24 Â Posted March 13, 2008 I am assuming that Leica are working on a totally new DSLR, not a rebadged 4/3 body, and it will have to be AF, which means a new range of lenses etc. Compatability for R lenses will be an adapter of some sort, rather like using R lenses on a Canon body. Â I'm an R user but would agree that it is far more important that Leica attract new customers for this camera/system rather than worry too much about existing R users and possibly end up with a compromised product as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 13, 2008 Share #25 Â Posted March 13, 2008 I'm an R user but would agree that it is far more important that Leica attract new customers for this camera/system rather than worry too much about existing R users and possibly end up with a compromised product as a result. Â James, Â Where do you think Leica could attract some new customers from? somebody expecting a sub $2000 camera? or the folks upgrading from point and shooters? Â Those who have 10k, 20k or even more to sink in equipment are pretty much settled. Â Pro shooters with big budget? they have gone for Hasselblad, and now there's PhaseOne / Mamiya 645 AFD III to be announced on the 17th ... next Monday! Â Canon will have their new flagship at the Kina, Sony will have their new flagship at the Kina. Â If Leica is to play the game of Canon, Nikon or Hasselblad ... can they catch up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 13, 2008 Share #26  Posted March 13, 2008 James, Where do you think Leica could attract some new customers from? somebody expecting a sub $2000 camera? or the folks upgrading from point and shooters?  Those who have 10k, 20k or even more to sink in equipment are pretty much settled.  Pro shooters with big budget? they have gone for Hasselblad, and now there's PhaseOne / Mamiya 645 AFD III to be announced on the 17th ... next Monday!  Canon will have their new flagship at the Kina, Sony will have their new flagship at the Kina.  If Leica is to play the game of Canon, Nikon or Hasselblad ... can they catch up?  Where? Me for one. The customer who used to buy Contax midrange SLRs (and the G system) and would love to have a Leica that he could afford. That's who.  What do you mean, "can they catch up?" For one, your query assumes that they HAVE to play catch up. They don't, because this isn't a zero sum game. A REASONABLY priced Leica system brings in people new to Leicaland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 13, 2008 Share #27 Â Posted March 13, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Where? Me for one. The customer who used to buy Contax midrange SLRs (and the G system) and would love to have a Leica that he could afford. That's who. Â Let me solve the problem for ya ... lad. Â Here's a red dot, print it off your inkjet ... glue it on any camera you like and you will have a Leica with no extra cost. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 13, 2008 Share #28 Â Posted March 13, 2008 The R's user base has always been smaller than M's and is the only one Leica can count on for its R10 in the first place. Loosing backward compatibility would be the best way to loose it as well IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 13, 2008 Share #29  Posted March 13, 2008 .......hmmmmmmmmmmmm Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/47676-meeting-lecia-distributors/?do=findComment&comment=509246'>More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 13, 2008 Share #30 Â Posted March 13, 2008 There are many details I don't like in 4/3 Panaleica lenses. The materials for the external barrel are polycarbonate, the numbers are just painted, not engraved, etc. I expect a different look in AF Leica lenses. On the other hand, manual focusing isn't the same with AF lenses. I would like to see aperture rings and DoF marks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 13, 2008 Share #31  Posted March 13, 2008 James, Where do you think Leica could attract some new customers from? somebody expecting a sub $2000 camera? or the folks upgrading from point and shooters?  Those who have 10k, 20k or even more to sink in equipment are pretty much settled.  Pro shooters with big budget? they have gone for Hasselblad, and now there's PhaseOne / Mamiya 645 AFD III to be announced on the 17th ... next Monday!  Canon will have their new flagship at the Kina, Sony will have their new flagship at the Kina.  If Leica is to play the game of Canon, Nikon or Hasselblad ... can they catch up?  They will attract customers who want to buy into the Leica brand, existing customers, new customers. There are many many people happy to buy a Leica digicam for twice the price of the Panasonic equivalent for example. Their business model and branding work.  The R system - excellent thought it is - has become 'obsolete' because most people in the market for an SLR system want AF etc., and the new Leica has to offer advantages over the competition. I hope that it is a new SLR with an R mount and new range of AF lenses - fully compatible with r/3cam lenses - but I doubt that it will be (the signs so far, Dr Kaufmann's lack of reference to 'R', the discounted sale of R lenses by dealers etc.).  However I'm sure that Leica will design it to allow R glass to be used in some way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 13, 2008 Share #32  Posted March 13, 2008 The R's user base has always been smaller than M's and is the only one Leica can count on for its R10 in the first place. Loosing backward compatibility would be the best way to loose it as well IMHO.  True, but I don't think it, the R user "base", can get much smaller... I would love to have an R9, I really would, and an all digital Rx would be incredible, but not if they are selling the body at $2500 and body with kit lens for $4000 and it isn't at least an AF camera that's easy to MF.  Meh. All speculation. We'll see what we'll see - and I'm surprised no one on here has any spy shots or tales of a visit to the factory where they saw a digital R on a tripod...  - Dana  "Digital Leica SLRs one thru four were... unsuccessful, but the Rd5 works!" - Dr. Richard Leicastrom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 13, 2008 Share #33 Â Posted March 13, 2008 You must be able to find a mint R body well below 1000 Euro, and I have seen plenty lenses at the 500 Euro mark (my Vario-Elmar 28-70, unbeloved "Sigma-lens" as it is:rolleyes: , is actually an amazingly good lens at 340 Euro mint....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhmitchell Posted March 13, 2008 Share #34 Â Posted March 13, 2008 What a thoughtful and interesting thread. I think FastFashnReloaded is absolutely correct here. The paradigm has shifted and we all need to acknowledge it. How many of us who are wiling to accept the new paradigm, indeed, determine whether the Red Dot will continue to exist. Â These are interesting times! Â Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 13, 2008 Share #35 Â Posted March 13, 2008 The R system - excellent thought it is - has become 'obsolete' because most people in the market for an SLR system want AF etc., and the new Leica has to offer advantages over the competition. I hope that it is a new SLR with an R mount and new range of AF lenses - fully compatible with r/3cam lenses - but I doubt that it will be (the signs so far, Dr Kaufmann's lack of reference to 'R', the discounted sale of R lenses by dealers etc.). Â I'm not against auto focus, James ... as many have pointed out that it can be done with full backward compatibility and I've speculated a lot in a number of the threads here. Â I do hope the "R10" will not turn out to be some Frankenscientists' funky project and the market really has no room for a new mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 13, 2008 Share #36 Â Posted March 13, 2008 Many folks would love to compare cars to cameras but fail to understand that you can never have a Rolls Royce for the price of a Toyota. Â I hope people do realize that if they need a sub $2000 camera ... there's a big bunch of decent products for the money. The market is already very well served and over saturated. There are many choices for you right now ... there's no need to hold your breath waiting for Leica on this forum everyday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 13, 2008 Share #37  Posted March 13, 2008 Many folks would love to compare cars to cameras but fail to understand that you can never have a Rolls Royce for the price of a Toyota. I hope people do realize that if they need a sub $2000 camera ... there's a big bunch of decent products for the money. The market is already very well served and over saturated. There are many choices for you right now ... there's no need to hold your breath waiting for Leica on this forum everyday.  In many cases the Toyota is a better car, while the Rolls is of course a status symbol. Do you want to be able to USE your camera in as many situations as possible, or just carry it around doing "art" and looking pretty?  Leicas used to be a working man's camera. They didn't get to be number one in the mid 20th Century by being a boutique item. I want a Leica that's a good tool, not just a shiny, and an M8, at the price it sells for, and the R, are boutique items.  I can take my Four Thirds camera to a kid's birthday party and not worry about getting some cake on the lens. I can take pictures of an old motorcycle in a garage, and forget and leave the camera sitting on the floor overnight and not freak because seven grand worth of body and lens have been crawled on by the night critters. A camera is a tool, and I don't have the money or time to pamper it to extremes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 13, 2008 Share #38 Â Posted March 13, 2008 ...I would love to have an R9, I really would, and an all digital Rx would be incredible, but not if they are selling the body at $2500 and body with kit lens for $4000 and it isn't at least an AF camera that's easy to MF... Dana, one can expect that the R10 will be AF for the simple reason that it won't sell otherwise but its price will be that of an R camera not 4/3's i'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastFashnReloaded Posted March 13, 2008 Share #39 Â Posted March 13, 2008 Dana, one can expect that the R10 will be AF for the simple reason that it won't sell otherwise but its price will be that of an R camera not 4/3's i'm afraid. Â Then they'll have to have something VERY special... Again, we'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 13, 2008 Share #40 Â Posted March 13, 2008 A camera is a tool, and I don't have the money or time to pamper it to extremes. Â If you need a tool, then just get a tool. Â What makes you think a status symbol can be had for less than 2000 dollars? or may be it's your kind of status symbol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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