ydante Posted February 23, 2008 Share #221 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) It doesn't seem wise to invest such a large ammount of money, such as the M8 costs, in a small frame sensor camera. Be it Mr Lee's fault or not, it was a heavy mistake to launch a camera that doesn't allow the full exploitation of M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 23, 2008 Posted February 23, 2008 Hi ydante, Take a look here Steven K.Lee gone. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Iron Flatline Posted February 23, 2008 Share #222 Posted February 23, 2008 Leica has one major shareholder (Kaufmann) who just publicly fired a CEO in a non-diplomatic way. There are forums like this with a large permanently-unhappy constituency. Irrational customers, irrational owners.... Any highly-competent CEO candidate will look at things like that and think twice (and three and four and five times) about joining Leica. Lee probably knew that working for such a company came with serious management issues, and hoped to make it work anyway. The next good CEO is unlikely to make the same mistake. It will be hard to find an independent, strong back-bone person... Dunno the first thing about what went down there... but I deal with extremely wealthy Germans individuals all day long. Just because they're rich does not know they understand how a company with products and customers (vs. real estate investments, for instance) ought to be run. My point is that the bigger mistakes and inexperience may be at the Board level, not at the CEO level. This situation is a problem. Any investor needs to be concerned about the value of the company. There's two ways to create value, and of course they're related: build a good business with on-going revenue, or create value in a way that enables the sale of the company. Neither is an option right now. but flipping it for an acceptable price is always easier. The camera brand we love so much is really in the hands of one man, Mr. Kaufmann. If he can't or won't give control to a proper CEO, his option might well be to sell Leica. Just imagine what might happen if Panasonic buys it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic Posted February 23, 2008 Share #223 Posted February 23, 2008 "My point is that the bigger mistakes and inexperience may be at the Board level, not at the CEO level. " If you see how Lee managed casually the Leica World review, you can imagine how he was with employees, resellers and subcontractors ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossawilson Posted February 23, 2008 Share #224 Posted February 23, 2008 It's my speculation; maybe he wanted to phase all the expensive stuff out, move manufacturing to china, downsize and turn the Leica brand into mid price market competitor. That's what anyone who's just in it for profit would do. Either that or he turned up for work one day with one of those bluetooth hands free things in his ear and everyone was just like, NEIN! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSee Posted February 23, 2008 Share #225 Posted February 23, 2008 Yes those liberals like Warren Buffet, George Soros and Bill Gates and those bozos at Apple and Google don't know a damn thing about business. If I could only be as incompetent as those bleeding heart pinkos I'd own my own island right now. Sorry Hank, but all of your pinkos are dressed in pink and voted, ah, "for family values". Business 101: buy cheap, sell dear... not a pinko position at all. Time tested, as yuour 50 'cron would attest, no? best, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 23, 2008 Share #226 Posted February 23, 2008 ....just to continue these endless speculation... isn't around some smart young (and possibly, female) member of Leitz family with a decent CV ? Could be fine ... Till now, this thread has been funny a lot... an amusing mix of serious tentatives of on line management consulting, exchange of personal insults (Guy and Imants... supernice !!! ), Europe-Vs. USA culture, the perennial "chinese syndrome"... I do not follow any other kind of forum on the Net, so I haven't other kind of references, but I am astonished on how the firing of a CEO in a small company can result into an explosion of personal sentiments... really Leica is something special in our hearts ... I hope in 2-3 days I'll start to get bored if this thread continues... think it has given its best, unless some really sexy new story emerges about the event... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSee Posted February 23, 2008 Share #227 Posted February 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) beep beep+boing boing+lpzgfr...eeeeehup (IQ approach)...= steven igi1, 2, 3, v-lux1 and .....luv it:cool: Ah, the eternal return, boink! Pads. Safe. Clicks. Keyboard... you lovely mouse, gimme some sugar! Ummm, that's it... sliders! Them's I luv! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted February 23, 2008 Share #228 Posted February 23, 2008 What?? The new Summarit lenses are faulty?? Which focal lengths are faulty?? Will someone please elabouate on this? My new 75mm Summarit had about 5+ cm back-focus at 1.5 meters. Robert White immediately offered to change it and I took my M8 up to the shop to check that the replacement was OK, which it was. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mym6is12 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #229 Posted February 23, 2008 Leica has no income and three extremely high cost R&D programs running M9, R10, lenses R-AF ( plus M9 may require new retro-focus wides ). Camera sales must have completely stalled at Leica by now - that's reason enough to give the board a shake. The Digilux 3 is dead in the water - overpriced vs. the end of line L1 prices and outclassed by the Olympus E3. D'lux worth more than the GX100 and G9 ? R9, R lenses - system dead pending R10 introduction M8 - price increases (that must have reduced demand) then confusion with new shutter/upgrade in August and finally the M9 on the horizon. I wonder if they will have to scale back or even kill the R10 ( perhaps fewer new lenses ) and re-focus on the M9. The badge engineering of Panasonic compacts/43 needs to be re-vigourated. They need charge less for badge swaps and have more say in design ( a 4/3 Minilux D fixed lens would do that :-). What ever they do, they need a big pot of cash/credit to keep the company alive over the next 9 months. They need a CEO the banks can trust. I hope they pull it together ( so I can buy a M9 at the end of the year ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted February 23, 2008 Share #230 Posted February 23, 2008 Do you know anybody "like" Steve Jobs? Fake Steve Jobs? The Secret Diary of Steve Jobs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted February 23, 2008 Share #231 Posted February 23, 2008 Skilled workers, are there any at Leica, or any left, or are you saying they hold a grudge to the detrement of their employer? I wonder what it says about the people that appointed Mr Lee in the first place.This whole thread is a funny. Most amusing, a cack a minute:D. What I am saying is that in my experience highly trained or skilled workers, like machinists or engineers, get easily bent out of shape, when a layman attempts to tell them how to do their job or assumes that they know as much as they do. It's in international phenomenon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSee Posted February 23, 2008 Share #232 Posted February 23, 2008 To echo(hello?) stnami's posts seems most apt, save for alessanadro's points... a CEO is a political creature with a finacial motive(redundant?). To assume the M8 UPG was his idea is dumb; and to assume its implementation his idea even dumber. Dealers know their products. The good one's know their customers... and the best know about the 'net and its "furiousness". Leica's website was OK, and now, OK still, like Yahoo or MySpace, it's just a website. M8 troubles? Sure... ...but, at the CEO level, you say "I can do X", and evidently, Mr. Lee's idea of "X" was not in the Board's interest. Has a lot less to do with photographers and camera features, but you know this, right? rgds, Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 23, 2008 Share #233 Posted February 23, 2008 .... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/46044-steven-klee-gone/?do=findComment&comment=490740'>More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 23, 2008 Share #234 Posted February 23, 2008 German engineering, American management, fast lenses and loose women... Well, considering the reliability rating of the M8 and its glass, to match the German Engineering in your other categories you might consider Enron, the lens Niepce used for his first, eight hour exposure, and Maria from the Sound of Music. What IS all this repeated talk of German Engineering? I have never before owned a camera which has had to go back to base three times in its first year at several weeks each trip, and lenses for which have so far had to be replaced or repaired on a basis of roughly 1 replacement for every two lenses. Let me make if clear: if the M8 and current M glass are indicative of the standards of German engineering, I'd rather buy a Rover... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian Posted February 23, 2008 Share #235 Posted February 23, 2008 I myself thought Lee had some some good ideas about future development of Leica Camera. The concept of the present Leica M8 to be continuously upgraded and eventually a full frame upgrade to the present M8 was futuristic and at the same time did not alienate present M8 owners with a new M9. The leaving of the Chairman of the Board is not a good sign because it means many old strategies and ideas must be replaced with new ones and this does not fare well for a company that has been plagued with management problems for many years. The case being that Leica Camera has had a longer immediate history of successful trading it could afford experimentation but after a recent upturn a change in management is not a good sign. I am myself like everybody else here speculating because none of us yet know the full background story. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted February 23, 2008 Share #236 Posted February 23, 2008 Laughs? I am reading this forum less and less, to be honest. It is starting to feel like dpreview's forums. Way too much mudslinging and random, unsubstantiated "facts". I tend to agree and your comparison with DP Review is apt. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted February 23, 2008 Share #237 Posted February 23, 2008 ...What IS all this repeated talk of German Engineering?... Ask Mark Webber. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted February 23, 2008 Share #238 Posted February 23, 2008 To paraphrase a UK television programme: "You are the Weakest Link - GOODBYE!" Or remember the old management advice "look after your friends on the way up, you may need them on the way down" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXs Posted February 23, 2008 Share #239 Posted February 23, 2008 Leica has one major shareholder (Kaufmann) who just publicly fired a CEO in a non-diplomatic way...The camera brand we love so much is really in the hands of one man, Mr. Kaufmann. If he can't or won't give control..(?) ... Update: Part of the conflict resulting in the sacking of Leica Camera AG's CEO Mr Lee - was the conflict he started with Leica branded dealerships and Leica's flagship stores. In fact, in Germany, the Leica-flagship store in Berlin did business with the domain name http://www.LEICA-CAMERA-BERLIN.COM - this was granted to Mr Martin Meister, a Leica dealership in Germany since 1929. Also http://www.LEICAbeiMEISTER.com (Hamburg). There are only 3 newly re-branded Leica-flagship stores in Toyko, Paris, Berlin - all three make gallery exhibitions of photography/art projects and installations. They are featured in Leica's house magazine (Hamburg) LFI- Leica International Fotografie. http://www.LEICA-CAMERA-BERLIN.COM presented last year a photography art project parallel to the MagnumPhotos show at the Camerawerk Gallery and the Berlinale Film Festival (documentary films 'Magnum in Motion'). Then Meister was forced to make a name change "without Leica". Axel Axel Sanders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted February 23, 2008 Share #240 Posted February 23, 2008 That is a good point about brandname ownership. I never thought it that big a deal, to be honest, and I don't see why you would go up against your flagship dealer over such an issue. Those who have been to the Leica Camera Berlin store know what a sharp design it has, and it could easily represent Leica. I would be far more concerned about smaller places with garbage designs brandishing the Leica name all over, making for a very unattractive presentation. Leica Camera Berlin is a really competent store with friendly people and, in calm times, a full line of M lenses, and digicams, and a nearly complete line of R lenses (no modular lenses in store, to my knowledge). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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